From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Sat May 10 2003 - 21:06:48 BST
Hi Phyllis:
> P.S. Platt may I recommend
> Corliss Lamont's Freedom of Choice Affirmed I think you'd enjoy it.
Thanks. I'll try to get it.
> >This is where you
> >miss one of the major points of the MoQ. Experience is always of Quality.
> >The two occur simultaneously only they are not two. Experience and value
> >are exactly the same phenomenon. There's no difference, no separation.
> >Morality and experience are identical. It's Quality that tells you the
> >difference between one thing and another.
> Is this akin to thinking of color without shape?
Thinking, imagining, dreaming are all derivatives from direct experience.
I can think of no simile or metaphor that captures Quality better than
Pirsig's description, " . . . that everyone is confronted with all the time."
(8)
> > To recognize that different cultures have different standards of social
> > morality is not to be a relativist. Relativists assert that we must honor
> > and respect the morals of all cultures alike, even though we may judge
> > their morals to be terribly wrong. That's what "diversity," a very
> > popular term on the left, is all about. Under the rubric of diversity we
> > are supposed to tolerate all forms of social behavior.
> I'd like to try inserting some terminology here to keep this straight.
> Cultural relativists say 1) What is considered morally right and wrong
> varies from society to society, so that there are no moral principles
> accepted by all societies. Descriptive only. Ethical relativists claim 1)
> + 2)All moral principles derive their validity from cultural acceptance.
> Therefore 3) there are no universally moral principles, objective standards
> which apply to all people at all times. Hope this helps. You two seemed to
> be talking past each other.
Yes. Thanks. I was describing the next step after a relativist asserts
there are no universal moral principles. She goes on to say, "So it's
wrong to criticise what people do in other societies. Toleration,
inclusiveness and diversity are good. There's no such thing as evil." The
MoQ flatly contradicts the relativist stance.
> >Fortunately, we now
> > have the MoQ to explain rationally why headhunting and socialism are
> > wrong and shouldn't be tolerated.
> Actually, we had objectivism before that.
Yes. The objectivist position has three central premises: the ultimate
value is life, the primary virtue is rationality, and the proper beneficiary of
ethical behavior is oneself. Since it focuses narrowly on the individual,
the scope of the objectivist's moral view left many wondering, "Is that all
there is?" Pirsig reflects this in the following from Lila's Child:
"I believe there are a number of philosophical systems, notably Ayn
Rand's "Objectivism," that call the "I" or "individual" the central reality.
Buddhists say it is an illusion. So do scientists. The MOQ says it is a
collection of static patterns capable of apprehending Dynamic Quality. I
think that if you identify the "I" with the intellect and nothing else you
are taking an unusual position that may need some defending." RMP
Annotation 130
> As for not using coercion, heed the
> > words of Pirsig:
> > "The ideal of a harmonious society in which everyone without coercion
> > cooperates happily with everyone else for the mutual good of all is a
> > devastating fiction."
> Do you have the page # handy for that quote? Most relativists, or
> postmodernists tend to forget that and try to slip it past in another
> guise.
The quote is from Chap. 24 of Lila that every relativist and postmodernist
ought to read at least once a month to be reminded of how the world
actually functions. It begins at the bottom of page 353 in my soft-cover
edition.
Platt
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