From: Joe (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Mon May 19 2003 - 18:32:19 BST
Hi Squonk, Paul, and All,
joe: I ponder your words of 13 May 2003 1:46 PM, Squonk, and it takes me awhile to respond.
A metaphysics, MoQ, does not explain how I know, it only focuses my attention on the most basic things that I know. A knowledge of dq and sq implies a knowledge based upon intuition, and an instinctive sense of reality. I desc ribe how I know from within, feeling assured that others have a like experience, and can move the conversation outward. I move from abstraction as the basis for words to an explanation of forming a dq-sq pattern as a basis for words. I am only explaining my 'view from within'. An artist focuses on patterns in a different way. His method of expression is his 'view from within'.
If I talk about the gravity field generated by a planet attracting an atmosphere which protects the planet in collisions witrh other celestial bodies am I talking about a 'view from within'? When a major league pitcher studies his pitching motion is this a 'view from within'? When I question the difference between inorganic and organic ordrs from the point of view of evolution, is this a 'view from within'?
"To see a world in a grain of sand." Evolution crosses severe boundaries, does it become 'a view from within'? Food, also crosses severe boundaries, and is not mistaken as a 'view from within'. Probably a 'view from within' should be abandoned if it is supposed to be precise.
Is the severe boundary "an extreme example of a more universal process?" How do I know the 'more universal process'? Do I know it in the same way as I know severe boundaries? I am forming patterns for words and I use an analogy to gravity to describe the presence of a vessel of awareness to use the patterns, and memory to hold them. One of the aspects of the pattern is dq which is latched by the sq pattern. With quality forming the patterns, I pour with more confidence from the empty into the void. I have no pattern for existence. In Art, "There is nothing new under the Sun!" Education wastes my time by only training my memory muscle. I have other muscles that need to be strengthened.
In art there are patterns formed which borrow their structure from another. How careful I must be to say that god, existence, quality, purpose have no pattern, and only art can give them a pattern. Art is a pattern. With quality as the pattern builder "it may be a general assumption of the MoQ that all patterns rely upon each other." They come from the same source. "and maintaining a SoM view from within is selfish and extreme." Art Rocks!
Joe
----- Squonk: I have been wondering about 'the view from within' as a general assumption made by the MoQ? Is it made at all?
Paul suggests that the MoQ is extruded out of insights into personal experience of Quality in ZMM and by analogy. Thus, we may wish to suggest an amoeba would say such and such if it could talk? I feel this ZMM analogy may be misleading when thinking about the MoQ, because the MoQ is Pirsig's mature thought and an advance on ZMM.
It is a matter of empirical observation that patterns sharing a relationship with our patterns may harmonise and become indistinct. In other words, our patterns and those of others in the same field may coalesce on many levels, at various times, and in many combinations. However, further empirical observation reveals that such coalescence's may display severe boundaries which may be mistaken as a, 'View from within.'
But, a severe boundary may be said to be an extreme example of a more universal process? As such, the extension of, 'Personal experience' of Quality is not then merely an extension by analogy to DQ and the MoQ - personal experience of Quality from a SoM dominated culture is an extreme example of boundary imposition being broken down.
Therefore, we may wish to say that the 'view from within,' as an extreme example of static patterning is morally preferable to move away from.
Thus, it may be a general assumption of the MoQ that all patterns rely upon each other, and maintaining a SoM view from within is selfish and extreme.
Thoughts peoples?squonk
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