Re: MD The Eudaimonic MoQ

From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Tue May 20 2003 - 07:11:19 BST

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    Dear Sam,

    Part 4 of my reply to your essay
    (http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/elizaphanian/Eudaimonic-moq.htm) as copied to
    the list (by me) in 4 parts 9 Apr 2003 22:33:54 +0200, 9 Apr 2003 22:34:14
    +0200, 10 Apr 2003 22:13:44 +0200 and 10 Apr 2003 22:13:57 +0200.

    CRITICISMS OF THIS PROPOSAL

    My criticism of your Eudaimonic MoQ is a combination of the first two 'knock
    down' objections you describe:
    '1. Pirsig's description of the fourth level as intellect includes
    non-rational and non-scientific understandings; that is, Pirsig's account
    includes emotional maturity as a constituent part; 'intellect' includes the
    human flourishing that I refer to; and therefore my objection is just a
    question of semantics, a 'bickering about words'.

    2. Human flourishing (eudaimonia) is just a high quality static latch within
    the social level; eudaimonic qualities just refer to high quality social
    units; eudaimonic values are simply particular types of social value. The
    intellect is still at a level above all this. The problems listed earlier
    are all solvable.'

    For me 'intellectual' is just a name for Pirsig's fourth level. I take his
    description to be:
    'the collection and manipulation of symbols, created in the brain, that
    stand for patterns of experience'.
    The 4th level is 'intellectual' because intellectual constructs are only
    meaningful at that level. That doesn't mean that other phenomena (like
    emotion) have no 'reality' at that level, but only that 'intellectual'
    refers to phenomena that are the best examples of phenomena that have no
    'reality' at lower levels.
    I avoid 'intellect', because that refers (for me) also to a 2nd level
    phenomenon. It is a characteristic that differentiates between homo sapiens
    and other species.

    Human flourishing for me is not a high quality static latch within the
    social level, but within the 'intellectual' level. I indeed think the
    problems you listed are better solved in my version of the MoQ than in yours
    and that my version differs less from 'the standard account' than yours and
    better deserves the name 'MoQ'.

    To be continued.

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

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