From: Elizaphanian (elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Fri May 30 2003 - 16:39:59 BST
Hi Steve,
: Sam said:
: >Would you
: > deny that Spock is an outstanding example of an intellectually dominated
: > person, as defined in the
: > standard account?
:
: Steve says:
:
: I assume you brought Spock into this because you think that (a) Spock is the
: epitome of an intellectually dominated person and (b) the MOQ says that it
: is best to be intellectually dominated, which would suggest a problem with
: the description of the intellectual level because none of us think that
: Spock is the ideal person.
:
: DMB seems to disagree with (a) and agree with (b).
:
: I agree with (a) but not (b).
DMB was the one who brought Spock into the conversation, but you are right, I do agree with (a) and
(b) (on the latter, see my 'supplement' post to Platt).
: I don't think that what is best is to be dominated by intellect. Pirsig
: says what is best is to be free of all static patterns which is often
: interpreted to mean some sort of enlightenment. I think it may also be read
: to mean having everything in balance.
:
: In Lila, Phaedrus represents intellectual quality (Rigel represents social
: quality, Lila represents biological quality, the boat represents inorganic
: quality). Most of us probably identified most with Phaedrus and assumed
: that what is best is to be like him. None of us wanted to be like Lila or
: Rigel (or the boat).
:
: But Phaedrus himself is a bit of a Spock, isn't he?
:
: He is intellectually dominated to the point that he can't really have a
: conversation with someone because his mind starts drifting away. Look at
: how the Narrator in ZAMM deals with his troubled son as well.
:
: Sam, perhaps intellect as "manipulation of symbols that stand for patterns
: of experience latched as copied rationales" works fine, it's just that it's
: NOT best for experience to be dominated by symbols any more that it should
: be dominated by social roles or emotions and biological urges, but rather to
: have all these aspects of being human in balance. Perhaps that is a good
: description of Eudaimonia.
I do think 'being human' is quite a good description of eudaimonia. Otherwise, I am in sympathy with
what you say here. I think that we need to gain a sense of self which is separate from the social
level, but that self can in turn become static and dead, and needs to remain open to DQ otherwise it
dies.
Cheers
Sam
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