Re: MD quality-man made or natural?

From: August West (augustwestd@yahoo.com)
Date: Tue Jun 03 2003 - 20:38:53 BST

  • Next message: Pi: "Re: MD quality-man made or natural?"

    Pi

    Even if I have never seen a tree; its shape and
    structure is the same whether I personally, as an
    individual have seen it or not. Perception is
    relative to an individual, just as choices are. As a
    human I have a choice, a conscience
    choice about what I do next, nature doesn't. While
    lightning may "jump" rain drops to get to the ground
    following the path of least resistance; it has no
    choice about this property (quality) of lightning (and
    electricity in general). It works the same everytime.

    Does this example help?
    -August

    P.S. Anyone read "Faster than the Speed of Light"? I
    can't remember the author's name, I remember he is
    Portugese though. Speed of Light was variable to
    overcome the Horizon Problem in the Big Bang Theory;
    it is strictly theortical, but very, very interesting.

    --- Pi <pi@mideel.ath.cx> wrote:
    >
    > Hi August,
    >
    > I would have to disagree. I don't think there is any
    > thing called
    > "absolute perfection". A tree is not a tree (as we
    > usually define it) to a
    > person who has never seen one. The tree is different
    > for this person.
    > Perhaps this person is blind and only knows a tree
    > by the way it sounds
    > (during a windy night) or the way it feels. It is a
    > perfect tree for this
    > person; Just like how it is a perfect tree for you.
    > But it is *not*
    > absolute.
    >
    > Similarly, 'a' is just a bunch of squigly lines to a
    > person who doesn't
    > read english (or any syntactically similar
    > language). Perhaps it is not
    > even a bunch of lines for this person if they do not
    > know the concept
    > of lines! 'a' is still "perfect" for this person.
    >
    > Anyway, the real point I want to stress with these
    > examples is that
    > absolute perfection does not exist because we all do
    > not share
    > intellectual patterns. If we did, there would be no
    > need for a discussion
    > forum. ;) An object you touch/see/feel/smell/taste
    > is only there as a
    > static intellectual pattern.
    >
    > And, yes, I do agree with the later part about
    > "relative perfection". I
    > think I have reinstated that point with the examples
    > above.
    >
    > Take care,
    >
    > - Pi
    > http://pirsig.ath.cx
    >
    >
    > On Sun, 1 Jun 2003, August West wrote:
    >
    > > Pi;
    > >
    > > I think Nic may mean "perfect" in the sense
    > that
    > > trees are always trees; that an object is an
    > object;
    > > that a is a, is always perfect. This is a
    > definition
    > > of "perfect" that is absoulte. Writing a perfect
    > essay
    > > would however, be relative; as you indicated. It
    > is
    > > however, not impossiable to be "realtively
    > perfect".
    > > i.e. an essay that accomplishes all its goals
    > would be
    > > "relatively perfect".
    > >
    > > -August
    > > --- Pi <pi@mideel.ath.cx> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Another thing I would like to point out is that
    > > > there no `absolute
    > > > perfection'. When you say "...the perfection in
    > any
    > > > essay...", you seem to
    > > > be referring to some absolute definition of
    > > > perfection. As I understand
    > > > it, the definition of perfection is very
    > relative to
    > > > our own static
    > > > patterns of quality. For example, I believe that
    > > > Pirsig's ZMM is an
    > > > excellent book, but obviously everyone who has
    > read
    > > > the book does not
    > > > share this opinion.
    > > >
    >
    >
    >
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