Re: RE: MD MOQ human development and the levels

From: Scott R (jse885@spinn.net)
Date: Sat Jun 07 2003 - 19:15:16 BST

  • Next message: Scott R: "Re: MD Free Will"

    [Scott prev]> > I've found it useful to see the distinction between
    > > social and intellectual
    > > levels in my own thought, rather than in externals.
    >
    [Paul:> I think associating social patterns of value with
    > thinking creates a fuzzy distinction between the 3rd
    > and 4th levels. To me, it is better to say that
    > thought is always an intellectual pattern of value.

    It's not fuzzy to me at all. I am either mindful of what I am thinking or I
    am not. After a bout of non-mindful thinking I can review it and note how it
    was driven by socially-relevant assumptions. They are both rational, but use
    different assumptions. The socially-driven thinking is that in which actions
    are evaluated according to the overall assumption that I appear of high
    quality in social situations (in simpler terms: fear of shame, pride of
    accomplishment, etc.).

    But it is a good point as to whether this takes one away from the MoQ (as
    Pirsig views it). I think it doesn't, since if one removes the
    socially-patterned thinking from, say the United Nations, then one is
    considering inorganic and biological patterns.
    You remark that the social pattern persists, even though the people involved
    change. True. But what is persisting are -- so to speak -- embodied
    thoughts, e.g., "Innocent until proven guilty" in a legal system. This
    thought can be examined intellectually.

    Why I think the distinction between (as I call it) social and intellectual
    thinking is important is that without it, the MoQ would have little
    soteriological value. The distinction being made has long been made as the
    difference between attachment and detachment, which I consider vital.

    There's more to this question, though, but I need to think about it more
    before going on with it.

    - Scott

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Jun 07 2003 - 19:24:53 BST