From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Sat Jun 07 2003 - 22:01:48 BST
Dear Scott,
Resuming a discussion with I left while discussing with Sam:
You wrote 18 Apr 2003 21:06:45 -0600:
'Conscious motivations would be another characteristic [of the 4th level], I
agree. But this is made possible because only with the change [in perceptual
consciousness from "gods talking in my head" to "me thinking"] does one
think of oneself as a moral agent, and to do that one has to be able to
think of "oneself" simpliciter. (I would agree with Sam at least in that
discovering one's individuality is also a necessary concomitant
characteristic of the fourth level.)'
O.k., let's assume that Barfield showed convincingly that perceptual
consciousness changed considerably between 500 BC and about 1500 AD. (Are
you sure this idea is not just as speculative as the idea that minds worked
essentially the same before and after this period?) I guess you agree that
the appearance of homo sapiens between 100.000 and 50.000 years ago also
marked an important change. What makes you think that this change between
500 BC and 1500 AD was more important and marked the appearance of a new
type of patterns of value rather than the change between 100.000 and 50.000
years ago?
If you agree that conscious motivation of action characterizes the 4th
level, couldn't people who experienced "gods talking in their heads" not
consciously use this "god-talk" to motivate their actions when others asked
them "why do you do that"? Even if they didn't think of themselves as moral
agents, didn't the fact that they asked themselves and others "why?" imply
that they were?
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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