From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Jun 08 2003 - 00:46:13 BST
Sam, Paul and all MOQERS:
Chapter 30 of Lila says:
"Dharma is duty. It is not external duty which is arbitrarily imposed by
others. It is not any artificial set of conventions which can be amended or
repealed by legislation. Neither is it internal duty which is arbitrarily
decided by one's own conscience. Dharma is beyond all questions of what is
internal and external. Dharma is Quality itself, the principle of rightness
which gives structure and purpose to the evolution of all life and to the
evolving understanding of the universe which life has created."
Sam said:
My thesis is that, in response to DQ, the static latch of the autonomous
individual is constructed by the accumulation of virtues (ie consistent
preferences). This process is open-ended, and driven by Quality. So when
Pirsig writes (the quote above) I'm very happy with that.
dmb says:
The accumulation of virtues? Hmmm. I don't know about that, but I'm pretty
sure that Pirsig's assertions about the nature of dharma go way beyond
anything like the construction of individuals. The very next paragraphs...
"Within the Hindu tradition DHARMA is relative and dependent on the
conditions of society. It always has a social implication. It is the bond
which holds society together. This is fitting to the ancient origins of the
terms. But within modern Buddhist thought DHARMA becomes the phenomenal
world - the object of perception, thought or understanding. A chair, for
example, is not composed of atoms of substance, it is composed of DHARMAS.
This statement is absolute jabberwocky to a conventional SOM. How can a
chair be composed of individual little moral orders? But if one applies the
MOQ and sees that a chair is an inorganic static pattern and sees that all
static patterns are composed of value and that value is synonymous with
morality then it all begins to make sense."
Earlier in the same section, Pirsig says the same thing this way...
"The physical order of the universe is also the moral order of the universe.
RTA is both. This was exactly what the MOQ was claiming. It was not a new
idea. It was the oldest idea known to man."
Sam said:
"Phaedrus is fascinated too by the description of the motive of 'duty toward
self' which is an almost exact translation of the Sanskrit word 'dharma',
sometimes described as the 'one' of the Hindus. Can the 'dharma' of the
Hindus and the 'virtue' of the Ancient Greeks be identical?" - The
Eudaimonic MoQ says yes. "Lightning hits!"
dmb:
The Eudaimonic MOQ says yes? Are you suggesting that Pirsig's MOQ doesn't
also say yes? Its a quote from Lila, no?
About intellect, Sam said to Paul:
"... (my dictionary defines it as "the capacity for understanding, thinking
or reasoning, as distinct from feeling or wishing" It'sthe second half of
that definition that I really object to, and why I like the neuroscientists
like Damasio who insist that emotions have a cognitive function). So I would
still prefer to use a different description.
dmb:
I honestly don't think you'll find any informed persons who think emotion
plays no cognitive function. This is another area where developmental
psychology has lots to say. (We can only expect so much from a dictionary.)
Its interesting to note that emotional trauma in the early stages can
forever disrupt or impede the higher cognitive functions. Its not a
developmental stage we can skip or avoid, at least not without paying a big
price. Feelings, wishes and emotions certainly involve conitive functions,
and they are an essential part of the overall maturation process. But they
are of of different sort than intellect.
I guess it depends on what, exactly, the word "emotion" means to you. But in
the normal sense of the word, they are something that adults learn to
control and manage for higher purposes. Not that we can avoid them, we just
learn how to better deal with them. I'm sure you know that teaching such
control a huge part of raising children. As a adults we can sort out our
feelings as a means of self-examination. They stay with us and guide us even
in our mature lives, but that doesn't mean they're intellectual level
values. It just means that intellectuals have feelings too.
Thanks for your time,
DMB
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