From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Tue Jun 10 2003 - 07:45:28 BST
Dear David B., Steve & Johnny,
David 8 Jun 2003 15:56:56 -0600 effectively rephrased his earlier question
into:
'Where and when are you most free from static patterns of value? In what way
do you actually exercise freedom from static patterns of value?'
When I don't identify with any of them. So, when I actually identify with
the only other 'thing' that's left besides: Dynamic Quality.
For me it is in (Quaker)religion that this happens occasionally. I recognize
that for others art may perform the same role.
- When standing up in meeting for worship (only) when I (physically) feel I
have to and say the words that (I feel) are given me. I momentarily identify
only with these words that are not mine, but that have to be said.
- When feeling a 'concern' (in the specific Quaker sense of 'divine
calling') to take a specific task upon me and putting it to the test of
collective discernment whether it is 'from God' in the Quaker group I am
member of. I then (this happened twice until now) entirely leave it to the
group to decide, not 'attaching' to any of the possible outcomes. (The
concern was recognized as such one of these times.)
- When I look back at my life, feel that it somehow (despite haphazard
twists and turns) fits in a larger pattern of human, Christian and Quaker
history and trust that whatever it will bring me is 'good' in a sense which
I don't need to understand.
Steve wrote 4 Jun 2003 18:28:47 -0400:
'In the MOQ, a sense of free will is an intellectual pattern of value. It
can be recognized whenever we think, "I did it because..." a phrase which is
the basis of all intellectual patterns of value since they are latched as
copied rationales'
Steve added 8 Jun 2003 17:18:31 -0400:
'I agree that human behavior is determined, the question of free will is
"what is it determined by?" You seem to be saying that your behavior is
determined by an intellectual pattern of value. The thing is, you *are* the
intellectual pattern of value ("Small self is the patterns."). So your
behavior is determined by you.'
When I identify with an intellectual pattern of value (with 'small self'), I
feel free to deviate from social patterns of value (unthinking behavior) as
well as from lower level patterns of value. When I (momentarily) identify
with Dynamic Quality (with 'big self'), I feel free even to deviate from
intellectual patterns of value (sets of ideas, emotions, intuitions,
perceptions etc. that stand for other experience). Dynamic Quality, being
dynamic and undefined, cannot determine, so only then I am completely free.
Johnny wrote 9 Jun 2003 17:46:25 +0000:
'I think that our lack of freedom is felt most when dynamic forces intrude
on our static peace. ... Freedom is from dynamic change.'
Yes. When you identify with static patterns of value, you want to be free
from change. When you identify with them, you don't experience your
determination by them (you lack of freedom or even 'imprisonment' by them as
David B. indicated).
If you have never experienced -in religion, art or otherwise- the feeling of
being free from static patterns of value by identifying with these 'dynamic
forces', you always identify with 'static peace' and the maximum freedom you
can imagine is this freedom from change.
But ... you are essentially answering another question then...
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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