Re: MD awareness hierarchy?

From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Thu Jun 12 2003 - 07:17:10 BST

  • Next message: Valence: "MD The Transformation of Love"

    Dear Steve,

    You agreed 24 Apr 2003 16:18:35 -0400 with my summary of your awareness
    hierarchy:
    'Every entity is aware of the forces operating at the level below the level
    whose laws it follows. An inorganic entity is unaware of inorganic forces,
    so follows inorganic laws. A biological entity is aware of inorganic forces
    (and tries to avoid regression to that level), but unaware of biological
    forces, so follows biological laws. A social entity (hominids, maybe some
    animals) is aware of inorganic and biological forces (and tries to avoid
    regression to these levels), but unaware of social forces, so follows social
    laws. An intellectual entity (a member of homo sapiens) is aware of
    inorganic, biological and social forces, but unaware of intellectual forces,
    so follows intellectual laws.'

    You also agreed that we don't need this concept of 'awareness' and could
    also write instead that entities behave morally at the highest level in
    which they participate, i.e. at the level in the static pattterns of value
    of which they are elements.

    In answer to my question:
    'At what level does this 'intellectually aware person' of yours follow
    laws?'
    you wrote:
    'Perhaps, this level is the level on which one searches for the "ghost of
    reason" as Phaedrus did in ZAMM. Would this be a "trans-rational" level?
    Perhaps there are no static patterns to follow on this level, yet.
    Do you see the MOQ as "trans-rational"?'

    Unlike Bodvar Skutvik (who regrettably doesn't participate actively any more
    in this list, I fear after getting to much criticism) I don't see the MoQ as
    a static pattern of value on a 5th level. (Neither does Pirsig.) As long as
    (those we brand as) SOM practitioners and MoQ practitioners can discuss with
    each other about the relative merits of different metaphysics (or ways of
    summarizing other narratives), they function on the same 4th level as
    alternative 'rationales'.
    I indeed don't think there is a 5th level of static patterns of value. Moral
    behavior beyond the 4th level (freedom from 4th level patterns of value) is
    therefore always temporary, dependent on momentary and erratic DQ
    experiences.

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Jun 12 2003 - 07:17:40 BST