From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Jun 15 2003 - 00:47:40 BST
Steve and all:
Steve quoted LC annotation 65:
³In the MOQ, nothing exists prior to the observation. The observation
creates the intellectual patterns called ³observed² and ³observer.² Think
about it. How could a subject and object exist in a world where there are
no observations?²
Steve said:
As I see it, SOM includes the assumption of an 'objective reality' that
exists independent of awareness while the MOQ understanding includes this
'objective reality' as an inference from experience--an intellectual pattern
of value. Do you agree? What other characteristics of SOM thinking
distinguish it from an MOQ understanding?
dmb says:
First, a request. Will those who post quotes from LC please, Please, PLEASE
provide the context. Pirsig is dispelling misconceptions and answering
questions with these comments and they would make much more sense if we know
not just what he's saying, but WHY he's saying it. It doesn't have to be a
lengthy quote. Please, just tell us poor readers what prompted the comment.
Now on to the topic...
This is a very tricky area. Its where epistemology meets mysticism. Nothing
exists prior to the observation. Whew! Wish I had a buck for every time that
sort of Pirsigism has been misconstrued as Solipsism. I'm reluctant to go
down that road again, but I've got a thought or two about the definition of
SOM. Pirsig has other names for it and I take them as major clues. He calls
it "a metaphysics of substance" and complains about "amoral scientific
materialism". Substance. Material. He complains about the misconception that
mind is just an ephemeral property of biological man. Objects. Objectivity.
Its "just" subjective. I think at the bottome of SOM is the rejection of
anything spiritual or interior or experiential. Its the belief that matter
is what matters. It says that physical reality IS reality and everything
else is iffy at best. SOM is modern scientific materialism. The belief that
there is a world outside ourselves is certainly one of the assumptions held
by SOM, but that assumption has fooled the East too. I don't think we can
blame that on SOM or equate it with SOM because that assumption is bigger
and older than SOM.
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