From: Valence (valence10@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Jun 26 2003 - 22:51:11 BST
Hey Ian,
Here's what I've got...
"...From 1963 to 1967 Pirsig worked as a technical writer in Minneapolis.
He originally conceived of [ZMM] as a short, light-hearted philosophical
essay, but following a 1968 cross-country motorcycle trip on which he later
based the narrative, he reworked the text into his present form."
rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Glendinning" <ian@psybertron.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 5:15 PM
Subject: MD 1967 or 1968 ?
> As a newbie I'm presuming I'm still allowed to ask naive questions ....
;-)
>
> I cannot find any categorical statements about the year of the ZMM trip.
> Some infer 1967, some 1968.
>
> A point I find intriguing is that if it was 1968 (as can easily be
inferred
> from the 25th edition notes, including the 1968 letters between Pirsig and
> the publisher), then he had the publication of a book planned before he
made
> the trip, which will cast a whole new light next time I re-read it.
>
> So was it 1968, or was it '67 ?
>
> Ian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
> [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Platt Holden
> Sent: 27 June 2003 21:13
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Subject: Re: MD The Transformation of Love
>
>
> Dear Wim,
>
> > Platt wrote 26 Jun 2003 07:59:20 -0400:
> > 'It bothers me, however, that you categorize persons as mere social
> > patterns, the realm where the Giant rules. We know what the Giant does
to
> > persons; he has them for lunch. Better to think of persons as
individuals
> > possessing intellect that can improve life by responding to DQ. That way
> > persons are less likely to end up as fodder for the Giant's ugly
> ambitions.
> > It was the guarantee of individual rights as protection against the
> > appetite of the Giant that made the USA unique and helped draw powerful
> > intellects from all over the world to its shores, yearning to be free.'
>
> Wim:
> > People participate in both social and intellectual patterns of value.
'The
> > Giant', or a cluster of social patterns of values, not only 'devours
> > people' in the sense of making them replaceable elements in a status
> > hierarchy. It is also used by people to give their life Meaning by
> striving
> > to rise in that status hierarchy and by identifying with the Giant and
its
> > contributions to humanity. Clusters of intellectual patterns of values,
> > like science, can also 'devour people' in the sense of making them
> > replaceable propagators of sets of ideas. I hope you're aware that the
USA
> > can also be experienced as a Giant?
>
> Yes, the USA can be experienced as a Giant as can any city or country on
> earth. Also, unfortunately, there are many people who identify with the
> Giant as their primary means of defining themselves rather than as
> individual, free thinkers and responders to DQ.
>
> As for the Giant's "contributions to humanity," he cuts both ways, raising
> up millions by providing myriads of opportunities and slaughtering
> millions in his quest for power. It's the down side, often disguised as
> being for the "public good," that we need to watch out for. Communism was
> sold to the Russians as helping them.
>
> As for clusters of intellectual patterns devouring people, that sounds
> like meme theory, in which case you and I have become unwitting victims
> and replaceable propagators of Pirsig's ideas, a theory I flatly reject.
>
> Having said all that, I would be foolish not to acknowledge the influence
> of the Giant and ideas originated by others on my individuality. Hopefully
> I'm not a complete clone of my culture . . . or my MD collaborators. :-)
>
> Platt
>
>
>
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