RE: MD Introduction and Questions

From: Ian Glendinning (ian@psybertron.org)
Date: Sat Jun 28 2003 - 20:39:50 BST

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    Platt, you said ..
    > If Quality is the standard,
    > don't you have to presuppose that Quality is a fact regardless of context?

    This contains it's own answer ...

    You start with "if" indicating some doubt.
    You "presuppose" which is pretty close to "believe" for my purposes.

    How do you tell when I speak the truth ?
    Tough one.
    You may believe I speak honestly - I believe I do, so I hope you can. How
    you tell whether I speak the truth depends on what you believe.

    If I / you / we happen to believe the MoQ is in fact about as close to an
    absolute / universal view of the world, the I / you we are happy to choose
    that standard of truth. But I cannot see how we get away from having to
    believe in the first place.

    This wasn't meant to be controversial.
    Ian

    -----Original Message-----
    From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
    [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Platt Holden
    Sent: 29 June 2003 18:32
    To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    Subject: RE: MD Introduction and Questions

    Hi Ian,

    Platt
    > > Am I correct to conclude there are no facts, just opinions?

    Ian
    > You got it Platt ...
    >
    > Clearly in a given context, culture or community of shared experience
    there
    > are shared opinions commonly (and pragmatically) treated as facts, but
    I've
    > not (yet) found the context that can claim it's opinions are all facts,
    > within which all other contexts simply hold beliefs about these facts.
    >
    > You could choose a context like the sum total of humanity on the earth
    now,
    > and suggest that a body of "belief" exists that is held by all to be
    facts,
    > and that might be true pragmatically for "all intents and purposes", but
    > that doesn't sound like the whole story for all time to me.
    >
    > Isn't this what DQ is all about ?

    Well, if DQ is just opinion, I can't really say what it is all about. You
    seem to be of the "nothing is certain" opinion, so I'm not certain I
    should believe what you say or even that you said it. Even your claim that
    facts are beliefs dependent on context won't hold up as a fact according
    to your own beliefs. So how do I tell when you speak that you speak the
    truth? What standard do you suggest I invoke? If Quality is the standard,
    don't you have to presuppose that Quality is a fact regardless of context?

    Confused in Myrtle Beach,
    Platt

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