From: Sam Norton (elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk)
Date: Thu Jul 03 2003 - 11:16:46 BST
Hi Bo,
Briefly (as I'm busy packing to move house at the moment...) my initial stab at reformulating level
4 is now on-line on the home page: www.moq.org
I think there is a potential reconciliation (or to use Matt's term, a colligation) between your
SOLAQI thesis and what I am arguing for. I don't agree with SOLAQI completely, but I'd be interested
to know what you think of my 'eudaimonia' arguments. The thread in MD was useful (for me) in
clarifying some ambiguities in that essay, especially in response to detailed criticisms from Wim.
Cheers
Sam
"Phaedrus is fascinated too by the description of the motive of 'duty toward self' which is an
almost exact translation of the Sanskrit word 'dharma', sometimes described as the 'one' of the
Hindus. Can the 'dharma' of the Hindus and the 'virtue' of the Ancient Greeks be identical?" - The
Eudaimonic MoQ says yes. "Lightning hits!"
----- Original Message -----
From: <skutvik@online.no>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: MD The Intellectual Level
> Hi Sam, thanks for the welcome.
> On 1 Jul you wrote:
>
> > I think it one of the arguments against the 'standard' account that
> > there is no consensus, even an approximate one, about the fourth level
> > of the MoQ, after so much discussion. However, I wanted to throw a
> > question at you relating your SOLAQI hypothesis and my eudaimonic one.
>
> About the "standard" account, yes! I noticed the eudaimonic thread that
> went on and on in April? but I did not read anything too closely at that time.
> Would you care to give me a sketch of it.
>
> > If 'thinking' (of any sort) is no longer seen as the defining
> > attribute of the fourth level, but the 'autonomous individual' is
> > instead, then would you agree that, once that new 'choosing
> > unit/static latch' is in place, the possibility for SOL is opened up,
> > ie that's where there is a possibility of me/not me? I think I would
> > see subject/object thinking as an early phase within level 4, ie the
> > fruits of autonomy within one particular area, the intellectual one,
> > from which the MoQ itself is an improvement. So it is a different type
> > of thinking, which can only operate at the higher level, rather than
> > being the essential attribute of that higher level itself.
>
> Yes the autonomous individual aligns well with the S/O intellect - perfectly
> well. Which one came first is a chicken/egg problem, but I would not object
> to autonomy being first. In a reply to Paul I said that the "me/not me" isn't
> the S/O divide (an pointed to the biological immune system) but in a
> metaphysical sense it certainly was a prerequisite and IMO equal to
> "autonomy"! You know Julian Jaynes (bicameral) idea that about 3000 years
> ago mankind "got" self-awareness. In a moq context ..changed from social
> to intellectual focus. IMO this autonomy/self/not self/me/not me came "of
> age" with the Greek thinkers as the search for what was permanent different
> from opinion, something that cemented into the subject/object metaphysics
> ...which is its STATIC value, before it was a mere dynamic social pattern.
>
> After writing this I saw your message to Scott R. about "thinking" Excellent! I
> once said that this diffuse quality is the dynamic aspect of existence. Your
> brain-boggling inquiry reveals that it is impossible to define it.
>
> A "Metaphysics of Thinking" (MOT) can be added to the long list of
> alternative "groundstuffs" - and their respective metaphysics - that has been
> suggested up through the years. But Quality is best! Squonk's rage is
> understandable in such a context, I deface the DQ as he sees it.
>
> Sincerely.
> Bo
>
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archives:
> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Jul 03 2003 - 14:41:57 BST