From: SQUONKSTAIL@aol.com
Date: Thu Jul 03 2003 - 21:48:59 BST
> The assertion states that Chinese and Indian intellect did not exist
> until it was introduced from the West. This view is not even held by
> Western philosophers. It is certainly not held by squonk, Paul, or Mr.
> Pirsig:
This is described in Lila where he follows the RT trail, but first this.
> 'For purposes of MOQ precision, let's say that the
> intellectual level is the same as mind. It is the
> collection and manipulation of symbols, created in the
> brain, that stand for patterns of experience.' Lila's
> Child
I don't deny that the annotating Pirsig has said so, but MOQ becomes
impossible if the intellectual LEVEL is identified with mind, which again is
equalled with INTELLIGENCE (one of those terms that can be made into a
metaphysics MOI)
sq: You have spent many years following a misunderstanding: The Intellect was
not born in the way you assert. The intellect grew to equal and then rise
above the social. Because you refuse to accept this, which is your prerogative,
you have invented your own metaphysics.
The danger of a view such as yours is that it produces a racist doctrine that
is not in Mr. Pirsig's work. I do not wish to be associated with your ideas.
Now back to the RT (=Aretê or Quality) part which begins with the assertion
that a similar term prevailed with the Hebrews as "arhetton". I take it to
mean
that the original Semitic idea was that existence was various "static"
manifestations of this dynamic entity before they had their own SOM in
which Arhetton became THE GOOD GOD which had created a material
(godless) evil world. However this "som" did not make it into a force that
came to dominate society like in the West.
sq: Semitic ideas are patterns of intellectual value in the MoQ.
The same RT in the name of "dharma" dominated the Eastern tradition with
different gods upholding the various aspects of existence, but Pirsig
doesn't
compare this to the static hierarchy of the MOQ only asserts that the Hindus
has reached a dynamic/static harmony which is foreign to the Western
(SOM) tradition where "...progress seems to proceed by a series of spasms
alternating freedom and ritual".
sq: You require SOM differentiation before you recognise intellectual value.
That you deny intellectual value to the Hindu tradition is a measure of your
own misunderstanding. This leads to racist doctrine.
All this - which makes perfect sense in the SOL interpretation - becomes
impossible in the mind variety. As if those people aren't as mindful or
intelligent as anyone else - and "intellectual" in the sense of being able to
work the S/O divide as a useful TOOL, which is the way it should be treated
in the West too, but we are in SOM's grip as you demonstrate so painfully
well.
sq: The SOL is your own idea. 'Those people' are only intellectual when they
conform to your own views. When they do not, they are not intellectual - in
your view. Thus, you confirm my statement:
"The assertion states that Chinese and Indian intellect did not exist until
it was introduced from the West. This view is not even held by Western
philosophers. It is certainly not held by squonk, Paul, or Mr. Pirsig."
If i am in a SOM grip, it is a grip of your making. I have to play my part in
your view just like everything else. This may be your own metaphysics, and
you should explore it. Sadly, the ramifications of your views are racism and
bigotry - precisely the very things the MOQ, in my and other's views, helps to
reduce.
squonk
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Thu Jul 03 2003 - 21:54:03 BST