From: Valence (valence10@hotmail.com)
Date: Thu Jul 03 2003 - 22:44:25 BST
Hey Johnny,
J
> So it is the social patterns that shape humans that are the giant. I
agree
> with you that Platt and I were being too narrow, and that the economic
> systems are organs of the giant.
R
Interestingly, when you look at the Giant like that, global social changes
like bringing capitalism to China or bringing democracy to Iraq appear to be
like social "organ transplants". Will the recipient society reject the
transplant because the organ is too incompatible with it own Giant?
J
A long time ago, humans were shaped into
> social roles by a giant that was probably 90% environmental - biology
> dictated what it meant to be a farmer, a hunter, a mother or father.
R
Not to get to abstract (ha ha), but I would think that when biology was
still 90% in charge there was no Giant at all. The Giant's birthday was the
day that social patterns became 51% of the equation and it just grew from
there.
J
But
> now those organs are 90% intellectual, the economy and technology shape
our
> roles and wills.
R
I'm not sure about this. I think economy is a social pattern, as I said, an
'organ' of the social giant. Whether or not there is an "intellectual
giant" is something I haven't yet made up my mind about. But if it does
exist, I would think it would have its own unique organs (perhaps technology
is one of them, but I think that economy remains a social organ... so to
speak).
J
> Social patterns have been changed by intellectual patterns, some have
> suggested that perhaps all social patterns started as static latches of
> early simultaneous intellectual ideas but I wouldn't go that far, I think
> most evolved out of biological necessity. But since those early days,
> social patterns have been shaped by their own Giant, the Intellectual
Giant.
R
I think you overstate the influence the intellectual giant has on social
patterns as of yet. Pirsig explains that in the Metaphysics of Quality
"...there is an intellectual morality, which is still struggling in its
attempts to control society (p183)." Although compare that with: "The one
dominating question of this century has been, 'Are the social patterns of
our world going to run our intellectual life, or is our intellectual life
going to run the social pattern?' And in that battle, the intellectual
patterns have won (p304)." Taken together, it seems to indicate Pirsig
believes that Intellect has won the battle against society, but has only a
weak hold over society as of yet. I think he places the 'decisive' victory
of the Intellectual level over Social level somewhere around WWI, so that
would make the Intellectual Giant a newborn, which would explain why it's
still struggling to control society.
J
> But to us, it is all the same, just one big Giant. It doesn't really
> matter if it is social forces or intellectual forces that force us to go
to
> work in the morning.
R
Tell that to a slave though.
take care
rick
The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. - E. Parr
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