Re: MD The Giant (types of patterns/types of people)

From: Valence (valence10@hotmail.com)
Date: Sun Jul 06 2003 - 23:42:56 BST

  • Next message: David Buchanan: "RE: MD The Giant (types of patterns/types of people)"

    Hey David, Steve, and all,

    DMB
    > Who could argue with such a calm and level-headed request for clarity? I
    > could. :-) Not that I have anything against clarity. In fact, I hope to
    add
    > some. But its worth pointing out that talking about the various levels of
    > values in terms of people seems VERY APPROPRIATE and is very much a part
    of
    > the main point. Pirsig's decision to present his MOQ as a novel clearly
    > demonstrates this, I think. He not only invents the title character as an
    > example of what his levels looks like in the real world, but an entire
    cast
    > of fictional characters, his own biography, a large number of historical
    > examples and many other examples from the actaul living world. (Nobody can
    > accuse this guy of being too abstact or other-worldly, eh!)My point is
    that
    > actual living people are simply the most likely way, if not the only way,
    we
    > are going to encounter the various values in our real lives. I think it is
    > more than just useful or appropriate to talk about values in terms of
    > people, I think its one of the main purposes of the book.

    R
    I think I'm with Steve on this one. I don't mind calling someone a "4th
    level person" as shorthand for "a person dominated by 4th level values" but
    I think that's all Pirsig is doing when identifies an individual with a
    level. I agree with you that the novel form was meant as an example of what
    the levels look like in the real world, but I think it's meant to be an
    example of how a person dominated by 4th-level values (Phaedrus) might deal
    with a person dominated by 3rd level values (Rigel) or 2nd level values
    (Lila). I don't think he literally meant that Phaedrus IS an intellectual
    pattern of value, or that Rigel IS a social pattern value.

    take care
    rick

    Stay at home in your mind. Don't recite other people's opinions. I hate
    quotations. Tell me what you know. - R.W. Emerson

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