From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Jul 06 2003 - 18:48:56 BST
Steve, Rick Wim and all.
The author says he wrote Lila to explain why people have different
perceptions of quality, or something like that...
Pirsig: (In the first pages of chapter 17.)
"He wondered what it was about himself that she (Lila) couldn't see when he
was getting angry. Just now at the cafe she'd gone on for fifteen minutes
about what great people they were and she never saw it coming. She missed
the whole point of everything. She's after Quality, like everybody else, but
she defines it entirely in biological terms. She doesn't see intellectual
quality at all. Its outside her range. She doesn't even see social quality."
Steve wrote:
Though it's useful to think about whether a person is dominated by
biological, social, or intellectual values, I think it's usually more
appropriate to our discussions to be clear about the levels themselves as
types of patterns of value rather than types of people or to at least
distinguish these two ways of talking about MOQ levels.
dmb says:
Who could argue with such a calm and level-headed request for clarity? I
could. :-) Not that I have anything against clarity. In fact, I hope to add
some. But its worth pointing out that talking about the various levels of
values in terms of people seems VERY APPROPRIATE and is very much a part of
the main point. Pirsig's decision to present his MOQ as a novel clearly
demonstrates this, I think. He not only invents the title character as an
example of what his levels looks like in the real world, but an entire cast
of fictional characters, his own biography, a large number of historical
examples and many other examples from the actaul living world. (Nobody can
accuse this guy of being too abstact or other-worldly, eh!)My point is that
actual living people are simply the most likely way, if not the only way, we
are going to encounter the various values in our real lives. I think it is
more than just useful or appropriate to talk about values in terms of
people, I think its one of the main purposes of the book.
Rick wrote:
I can't help but note that in the MoQ, the patterns of different levels are
supposed to be in conflict to a certain extent.'
WIM wrote:
I always find it confused that in 'Lila' different levels are BOTH presented
as discrete AND as conflicting.
dmb says:
Wilber uses some terms that might be useful here. The conflcit between
levels is sort of a natural by-product of the evolutionary process. (Every
mother knows that it hurts to give birth.) Or the conflict can be thought of
as a struggle for independence. Wilber uses the words words like
"differentiation" and "reintegration" to describe the process. The first one
is the birthing, or independence stage. Its a way of saying
"specialization", not unlike the way a stem cell can become specialized as a
brain cell or heart cell. When this process goes too far, he refers to it as
"disassociation", which is an unhealthy step beyond differentiation. But
then we are somewhat redeemed by "re-integration", which hardly needs to be
explained. "Coming home to place he'd never been before,.."
Thanks,
DMB
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