From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Wed Jul 16 2003 - 14:36:57 BST
David, Scott (mentioned) and all.
On 13 July you wrote:
> Like the idea of the "autonomous individual", which was Sam's if
> memory serves, I think that SOM as a DEFINITION of the intellectual
> level goes too far.
I see Sam's idea as a variety of the S/O definition. An autonomous
individual - a subject - is the requirement for the S/O divide to emerge,
but it was not until this free individual started to project its freedom on
the world in general ...began to question the traditions, or better: when
they became traditions, that Q-intellect was established. But warning
bells ring. This "individual vs the outside world" somehow re-
introduses the SOM and we are stuck in its mire again: Intellect is
NOT the free-thinking individual alone, but (the vaqlue of) experience
divided in the individual/outside world way.
> Whille its clear that individuality and
> materialism dominate our present Western worldview and thereby
> dominate our intellectual world, I don't think either of these
> characteristics can be expanded to the point that they describe the
> essence, or whatever, of the MOQ's 4th level. More specifically, I
> think its clear that non-SOM intellectual descriptions are entirely
> possible. In fact, the MOQ is one such example.
"Non-SOM intellectual description"..must be the oxymoron of the
century! And the notion that the MOQ is one intellectual pattern, SOM
another!? Where does that leave SOM if/when the MOQ succeeds?
The two are incompatible and the value that has given us modernity
can't survive as an immoral intellectual pattern? It can be compared to
a social pattern (in the era when it was top notch) declaring that social
behavior was immoral. THAT happened in fact, but that pattern
became intellect! Likewise, the MOQ is a dynamic intellectual pattern
which is working up escape velocity, but the pull of S/OL-intellect's
gravity is enormous - something this discussion proves..
(Phew, speaking of resolving a metaphysical dispute at the end of
each sentence, will it newer end?)
> Other examples have
> already been cited. I think this point alone is enough to dispell
> SOLAQI. But as I already suggested, the notion is not without some
> foundation. If we were talking about the dominant worldview I'd be
> more likely to go along, provided it was only a generalization with
> plenty of room for exceptions, but I think it fails as a definition of
> the 4th level. It just goes too far.
There's still hope ;-)
> Here's a little secret. I think that SOM is only the Western form of
> an illusion that has haunted all of humanity. Its like an intellectual
> and scientific assertion that the Maya is all that is real. It is a
> metaphysical system that asserts that this illusion is reality.
> Pirsig, like some mystical mechanic, tries to show what's wrong with
> that assertion and exactly how it is an illusion.
Illusion? An illusion that has transformed the world so profoundly for
the better? But OK, illusion in the sense that ALL static patterns are
illusory because only the greater DQ/SQ reality is non-illusory.
> P.S. Bo, I think Squawk's attempt to paint you as a racist only makes
> him look ugly. His ridiculous accusations only paint him as a hateful
> and irrational child. Don't take them to heart.
That is too weird to be taken seriously, but thanks.
Bo
PS:
Why is it that you and Scott, so clear on the issue of intellect out of
the Greek experience, retreat and speak of SOM as just one pattern
of some more fundamental intellect ...of which the MOQ is another?
Is it the said SOM gravity pull that demands Q-intellect to be some
noble "thinking" activity? This pull has even overtaken the annotating
Pirsig while Phaedrus of ZMM - the visionary and originator of the
Quality Idea - who drew the first diagram of the new Quality
Metaphysics made a box called INTELLECTUAL REALITY which
divides into SUBJECTIVE and OBJECTIVE realities. Admittedly the
romantic/classic split was rejected, but he saw intellect as SOM.
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