From: Steve Peterson (peterson.steve@verizon.net)
Date: Fri Jul 18 2003 - 18:41:54 BST
Squonk, Scott, all,
> sq: In my view, intellect is very much older than recorded history. In
> my view, intellect and intelligence are the same thing. In my view,
> the intellectual level of the MoQ existed and evolved simultaneously
> with the social level for a period of time very much older than
> recorded history. In my view, All levels are continuing to evolve
> simultaneously, and interacting simultaneously.
Steve:
I agree with this except in that it seems to suggest that there were no
social patterns without intellectual patterns and vice versa. Social
patterns existed long before intellectual patterns evolved. Otherwise it
would not make sense to think of the MOQ as an evolutionary hierarchy.
Scott:
> Yes. My objection to the idea that the social and intellectual levels
> are simultaneous is that it doesn't explain how the fourth level is in
> conflict with the third.
>
> squonk: They have to be simultaneous in order to be in conflict.
Steve:
Such a conflict makes no sense if the levels are discrete.
'Lila's Child' annotation 52 (published version):
'I think the conflicts mentioned here are intellectual conflicts in which
one side clings to an intellectual justification of existing social patterns
and the other side intellectually opposes the existing social patterns.'
Squonk, can you see that the intellectual level evolves out of the social
level as the social level evolves out of the biological level and the
biological level evolves out of the inorganic level? Doesn't such a
hierarchy have aesthetic value to you?
When Pirsig talks about the intellectual level transcending the social level
after Homer, he is talking about the intellectual level going off to serve
itself rather than to sustain society just as at one time the social level
did the same to form the Giant though its original purpose was to help
people survive.
It seems important to me that these levels are viewed as discrete and
hierarchical. For those who do not see the social level existing prior to
the intellectual level, how do you justify the hierarchy of values? I.e. How
do you know the intellectual level is a higher level than the social level?
Thanks,
Steve
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