From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Sep 21 2003 - 18:26:22 BST
Scott
I don't get this. I am happy to talk about objects as static patterns
identified in the flow of my perceptions. Such identification requires
some sort of theory about the object, e.g. these patterns make up
an object I suggest calling a cat rather than a dog. This requires memory
to re-cognise these patterns. There's a lot of mind stuff going on when
we re-cognise objects. When we talk about social customs, or intellectual
patterns, the internal aspect is perhaps playing a stronger part so perhaps
we would say subjective rather than an objective aspect of reality. SOM
problems start if we run off towards materialism or idealism and lose sight
of reality as a whole. There's no doubt that my mind spends most of its
time going round in static patterns, most of which I've picked up from
other people. The odd moment of creativity does occur, whether I say
I am creative, or creativity occurs through me -I don't care greatly,
perhaps
I prefer the more modest of the two. There's no doubt the static patterns
cut my unity to shreads, that this splitting allows increased
self-reflexivity.
A mysterious activity, certainly. I think you have to see Being (static) and
Becoming (dynamic) as equi-primordial hence Be(com)ing as Cupitt
suggests. Or what Heidegger calls a 'clearing' where earth, sky, man and
gods appear. A weakness in Pirsig? Well I certainly think there is a lot
of thinking to be done about how DQ and SQ relate to each other. I have sort
of thought
that DQ is somehow sacrificed in SQ at the same time as it is demonstrated.
A repeating pattern! It repeats, it does not change, this is a sacrifice of
DQ.
A sort of bondage. But is not this bondage the very essence of their being a
finite-
actual world rather than infinite non-commitment. Infinity would never
bother to come back
and do the same thing over again, e.g. a repeating pattern. To repeat
something is perhaps
to say that it has value, it is worth doing again. Think Of Nietzsche's
question of would
you live your life over again?
Why the distinction between the subject and its body? -well I take subject
as agency
as DQ in action, the body seems separate because DQ has withdrawn to the
extent that the
body endures, i.e. static repeating patterns, hence the alienation, if it
repeats it does not need
to chose, it does not call for agency. Duration implies SQ. DQ is as
potentially destructive and
dangerous as it is creative, it can wipe away SQ.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott R" <jse885@spinn.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: MD DQ=SQ tension
> David M,
> >
> > briefly, what do you mean by the SO divide is
> > meaningless in the MOQ?
>
> In Lila, Pirsig restricts the use of the word 'objective' to things and
> events of the inorganic and biological levels, and 'subjective' to those
of
> the social and intellectual levels. In Note #111 of Lila's Child, he makes
> this explicit: in the MOQ, the word 'object' is to be used only in the
sense
> "Something perceptible by one or more of the senses, expecially by vision
> or touch". To me this makes the MOQ useless in coming to grips with the
> mind, since it disallows talk of the intentionality of consciousness, to
> talk about "thinking about X" when the X is not inorganic or biological.
In
> the MOQ, the mind is a set of static patterns of intellectual value. I see
> this as a bogus way of eliminating the mind-body problem, similar to the
way
> materialists get rid of it. It just defers the problem. It ignores the
> mystery that a unity can split itself, by being able to "think about".
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
>
>
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