From: abahn@comcast.net
Date: Tue Sep 23 2003 - 20:59:33 BST
Platt,
Yes, you can argue irrationally and be taken seriously. It happens everyday.
And I am aware of the principle in logic where no statement can be both true and
false. There has been further work in logic (more than a half century
ago)proving that NO axiomatic system can be both consistent and complete
(Godel). This is why your brilliant rational questioning of all inconsistent
statements such as "There are no absolutes" is also an absolute is true, but
trivial to me. And it is why self-referential inconsistencies really don't
concern me. What we are trying to do in discussions, which is different from
logic, is persuade people. We are not offering proofs and trying to avoid all
inconsistencies. This is why it is ludicrous to point out that arguing for
philosophy to stay out of politics is imposing a philosophical position into
politics. Yes, it is correct but it offers nothing constructive to the
discussion. It shuts off any effective dialogue. You can walk away with a smug
look on your face saying "I was correct--I really am brilliant" and the
disscussion is ended right there. You might call this rational, but I think it
is just plain stupid.
Andy
> Andy,
>
> > Ok, I see it's like the absolute, "there are no absolutes," or having no
> > tolerance for intolerance. I am not sure why you think it is insightful
> > to point these contradictions out. They are trivial and really don't
> > point to a hole in someones argument. You may as well tell someone to
> > just give up on discussion altogether. These contradictions are
> > inherent in our language.
>
> Logic is defined in my introductory philosophy text book as "systematic
> analysis of the correct and incorrect processes of reasoning." Am I to
> conclude from your reply that one can argue irrationally and be taken
> seriously? Are you aware of the principle in logic that no statement
> can be both true and false?
>
> Oh, I get it. Being a Rorty/Fish fan, you don't believe in either
> principles or truth. :-)
>
> Platt
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archives:
> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Sep 23 2003 - 21:03:47 BST