From: abahn@comcast.net
Date: Sat Sep 27 2003 - 22:03:10 BST
Hello Mark,
Mark: "The MoQ says value is primary experience… The MoQ further says that
patterns of value have four broad value systems…Now here is an interesting
thought: 'I' AM four value systems!"
Andy: This I do find interesting. You are finally going to give us your
interpretation of the MOQ.
Mark: "Therefore, what does being lost mean here? …Therefore, to be lost may
actually be to be in a state of disharmony! Interesting stuff this. The opposite
of being in a state of disharmony would be to be in harmony? Getting better...
Andy: Yes, I would say interesting. Have you read Yale's Fractal Philosophy
paper on the coming and goings of the coming and goings of change. I sincerely
recommend it. I think you would find it stimulating.
Mark: "What does it mean to be inorganically lost? From a human perspective, i
don't think this has much to do with being lost, unless you are falling out of
an aeroplane with no parachute!
Andy: No, this is not what I meant by saying you are a poor lost soul.
Mark: "What does it mean to be biologically lost? I imagine this would mean
being unable to value biological patterns in a harmonious relationship with
other biological patterns. Sounds like hell doesn't it?"
Andy: Well, I don't really have a clear idea of what hell is, but this is also
not what I meant when I referred to you as a poor lost soul.
Mark: "What does it mean to be socially lost? I imagine this would mean being
unable to value social patterns in a harmonious relationship with other social
patterns. One may, for example, be an egocentric celebrity dominated
megalomaniac who is so out of touch with how others really see them, as to be a
bit on the psychotic side? Ring any bells?"
Andy: hmm. Mick Jagger? Or, I know Arnold Schwartzanagger (sp?) Or maybe you
are referring to Osama? Give me another hint.
***WARNING! THE ABOVE WAS SOME HAPPY CLAPPY BIT. THE FOLLOWING WILL BE MORE
PATRONIZING SHEET OF GUFF***
Mark: "What does it mean to be intellectually lost? Well, a disharmonious state
is implied. This would mean an inability to preselect on the basis of harmony a
simple and elegant static intellectual pattern of value, which harmonises with
other intellectual values. Art, in other words. Beauty - experienced but almost
beyond description. However, i say almost beyond description, because the MoQ
provides a language of the aesthetic that places DQ it the centre. To be found
is to be beautiful? To be lost is to be ugly?"
Andy: You are getting closer. But first let me again recommend Yale's paper.
I think he has provided a more artful description of being lost and found. I
again want to say that I find all of the above more interesting and stimulating
than the majority of your other posts. It lets all of us here in on your view
of the MOQ. So, thanks a lot. However, your version is no more the proper MOQ
than anyone else's I have witnessed here at moq.org.
To say the MOQ is exclusively about Art and Beauty is nice, but extremely vague.
I am glad this view has transformed your life and I think it could benefit many
others to view life in this way. But I think you should keep your mind and
thoughts open to the free exchange of ideas with others. You are captured by an
ideology that you feel makes life more "beautiful," but by trying to hold these
ideas into a way of life you are only limiting the many possibilities for
further exploration and experiences in dynamic quality.
You said in another post: "People who do not accept the MoQ. Steve does not
accept it, Matt finds many problems with it, DMB does not find the MoQ valuable,
Sam is a Christian, so there is little chance of a fair hearing there is there?"
Your phrasing makes the MOQ appear to be something we have to accept rather
than appreciating it--as we would Art and Beauty. You are very close to making
the MOQ into a religion that requires unquestionable faith. It is interesting
you call out Sam for being a Christian. Everything I have read of Sam's points
toward a flexible and tolerant mind. He completely accepts the idea that there
are benefits resulting from the free exchange of ideas. You, however, seem to
imply that the MOQ must be followed according to some rigid rules we must accept
all based on a faith that RMP got it RIGHT the first time. To find problems
with it or propose solutions is to go against the faith. Finally, you have
anointed yourself as a keeper of the faith. Sorry, but I want no part of it.
It is not beauty, it is lost and ugly--just as you implied.
Andy
The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal. The revolution will not get
rid of the nubs. The revolution will not make you look five pounds thinner,
because the revolution will not be televised—-Brotha.
Gil Scott-Heron
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