Re: MD Dealing with S/O

From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sun Sep 28 2003 - 20:52:38 BST

  • Next message: David Buchanan: "RE: MD Dealing with S/O"

    DMB

    Sure a bike rolling along is a static pattern,
    but when you reach a real junction?
    Am I going home or the other way to a
    different life?

    DM
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 8:19 PM
    Subject: RE: MD Dealing with S/O
    4

    > Scott and Gents:
    >
    > Scott said to Dan:
    > My objection does not have to do with definitions. It is instead that
    Pirsig
    > does not distinguish between thinking and thoughts, but lumps them both
    > under the heading SQ. I consider thinking to be, at least potentially, the
    > creation of static patterns, not itself a static pattern. Likewise, I see
    > the mind as a locus of DQ/SQ interplay, again, not as just SQ.
    >
    > dmb says:
    > If I understand Bodvar on this point, he was quite right to point out that
    > all static patterns can respond to DQ, not just intellectual static
    > patterns. And I can understand why you might want to assert that thinking
    is
    > dynamic, but this is where I think Paul was quite right. There is a world
    of
    > difference between the big self and the little self. I mean, by analogy we
    > might conclude that motorcycles are dynamic becasue they move down the
    > highway at great speed, but that's not really what dynamic means. The
    > static/Dynamic split is not meant to point out a distinction between what
    is
    > in motion and what is still. Its related to these connotations, but not
    > identical to them. Not that you put it that way, but your distinction here
    > between thoughts and thinking seems to imply it. I think we can see
    > intellect responding to DQ when it is in the throes of creativity, such as
    > we see in the SODV paper or in Ponciare's creation of a hypothesis, but
    that
    > only means that DQ is at work in these kinds of creative acts. Most of the
    > time, however, thinking is utterly depends upon grasping ideas, bringing
    > static forms together in a disciplined and orderly way and is static in
    all
    > kinds of ways. Again, don't let the fact that thinking is a process and
    > entails something like thoughts in motion lead you to the false conclusion
    > that it is anything other than staic. Bricks and brick laying are both
    > static, you know?
    >
    > Scott said to D. Morey:
    > Thinking (or reason, which I take to be more or less synonymous) is
    > inherently dynamic. Concepts and ideas are the static result. ...
    > I don't like "Quality=experience", not because I think it is false, but
    > because the way Pirsig uses it it tends to focus on experience as
    > perception and overlook thinking. Pirsig frequently says "pre-intellectual
    > DQ" but not "intellectual DQ".
    >
    > dmb says:
    > He doesn't use the phrase "intellectual DQ" because there is no such
    thing.
    > Pre-intellectual experience is prior to all thoughts. It is what we
    > experience before we have a chance to think about it. Don't think of
    Dynamic
    > Quality in terms of action or movement, but rather in terms of
    nothingness,
    > emptyness, the void, the ineffable divinity out of which all staic forms
    > arise. If we think of DQ as the undifferentiated aesthetic continuum, then
    > we can say that both thoughts and thinking itself is all about the
    > differentiated, that which has become distinguishable from everything
    else,
    > see?
    >
    > P.S. I've really enjoyed the exchanges between you and Paul and have been
    > flagging lots of posts, but its been kind of crazy here at work for weeks.
    > Not that I could add much to Paul's excellent efforts, but I would have
    > liked to try.
    >
    >
    >
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