From: Paul Turner (paulj.turner@ntlworld.com)
Date: Sat Oct 04 2003 - 10:35:21 BST
Scott
[Scott:]
> "The MOQ says that Quality comes first, which produces ideas, which
> produce what we know as matter.
How can Quality produce ideas if it is not Intellect?
[Paul:]
Quality produces ideas; intellect is the manipulation of those ideas.
[Scott:]
So at the end of this post you say:
> Whilst many different metaphysics may be built around an "ineffable
> source", as I understand it, without "Quality" or "value" as a central
> term, Pirsig's particular metaphysics makes no sense. I don't think
you
> can replace the term "Quality" with "language" or "intelligence" or
> "consciousness" without destroying the whole thesis. To repeat a quote
> from above, Pirsig starts from the assumption that..
>
> "It is this harmony, this quality if you will, that is the sole basis
> for the only reality we can ever know."
This shows Pirsig's error. He says he starts with the observation of
value.
This is not true. He starts with thinking about the observation of
value.
[Paul:]
Firstly, he says value is the preselection of what becomes consciousness
before it is possible to be thought about. It is not an "observation of
value", it is value that is observation. Observation creates the
"observer" and the "observed".
Secondly, he spent a whole book demonstrating that Quality is
"recognised" without intellect. This also applies to recognising Quality
that produced intellectual patterns. Remember his teaching experiment
"what is quality in thought and statement?" in Bozeman?
Paul
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