From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Nov 02 2003 - 21:57:31 GMT
David M said:
Rorty's theory of truth is closely linked, what is true for us will depend
on what we value. Don't see why a MOQer would have a problem with this.
Value holds everything together it seems, not so flimsy. Truth depends on
language and value. Rorty and Pirsig agree. ..The status of truth has to be
similar to the status of Newton's laws of physics as discussed in ZMM.
dmb says:
Again, you're not making an argument, just a series of unsupported and vague
assertions. And I think its a huge mistake to extract a theory of truth from
ZAMM, where intellectual static patterns had not yet been coined. Since
Pirsig asserts that truth is a high quality intellectual description, we
can't rightly turn to ZAMM for that theory.
David M continued:
The 'truth' concept is a cultural phenomenon, and subject to
the quality of cultural phenomenon as Rorty discusses. Can't
see why a Pirsig reader would lose any sleep over what Rorty says.
When people here start to complain about Rorty they are always talking
about stuff that Rorty does not write about or arguing with a position
he does not take.
dmb says:
Always talking about stuff that Rorty does not write?! How can you say that?
How many more times must I post the quote where Rorty decribes his theory of
truth, the one we are presently discussing? You're being very unfair here.
And the rest is so vague that it means nothing at all to me. Truth is a
cultural phenomenon. OK. So what? By this standard we'd hardly be able to
distinquish any two theories of truth. I mean, to say that both the Arabs
and the Jews agree that the sky is blue is not to say they have no
disagreements. Look again at these contrasting quotes...
Pirsig:
"To reify means to regard an abstraction as if it had a concrete or material
existence. You don't lose the value of quality by treating it as if it had a
concrete or material existence. You lose the value of quality by treating
it as if it had only an abstract existence. That is the fundamental point
of the MOQ."
Richard Rorty:
"For pragmatists, "truth" is just the name of a property which all true
statements share. ...Pragmatists doubt that there is much to be said for
this common feature. They doubt this for the same reason they doubt that
there is much to be said about the common feature shared by praiseworthy
actions... They see certain acts as good ones to perform, under the
circumstances, but doubt that there is anything general and useful to say
about what makes them all good."
For Rorty, the good and the true are adjectives, modifiers, while Pirsig
treats them as nouns. See?
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