From: johnny moral (johnnymoral@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Nov 05 2003 - 21:58:04 GMT
Hi David,
>Nice to have someone like my post.
I know what you mean :)
>I am interested in the use of expectation.
Thanks for the interest. To the others who were around the last time I
brought this up and will probably click the delete button now, I first
apologize for continuing to drone on about it to whoever will listen, but
also encourage you keep an open mind and to take my zeal as a sign of how
well this rewording and reconception of Quality as Expectation works for me
in understanding Quality. I think you could have similar illuminations, and
eventually see the beauty and power of Expectation and start to use it
instead of Quality.
To the inevitable and understandable question "whose Expectation?", the
answer is the same as for "whose Quality?" It is the source and preceeds
and forms the consciousnesses who experience it, just as Quality does.
There is nothing anyone can say about Quality or Morality that isn't true
for Expectation, broadly understood. The relationship of Quality and
Expectation can be stated as "Quality is experienced by realizing
Expectation", or just "Quality is the Expectation". For example, a quality
motorcycle mechanic does what a motorcycle mechanic is expected to, a
quality chair does what it is expected to, etc. A glass is expected to hold
together, and - this is key - that is WHY the glass holds itself together.
It isn't the atoms that do it, it is the expectation, or, since the
expectation is Quality, it is Quality that does it.
Could a glass be expected to just fall apart, or say hover in the air or
something strange like that? No, it really couldn't be. Expectations are
determined by experience - aka again Quality, reality, the whole of Morality
- and are not arbitrary. They are rationality and reason itself. The
stronger the expectation, the higher the quality. Thus, gravity is
extremely high Quality, reason is extremely high quality, language is high
quality, etc, because there is great confidence in the expectation being
realized. (A language where you couldn't expect a word to mean the same
thing it did last time would a low quality language) The outcome of a coin
flip is low quality, though that it will be heads or tails is certainly a
very high quality pattern. The idea that reality exists "out there" is high
quality, because we reliably expect reality to exist out there. This is the
same as saying, as Pirsig does, that we expect reality to exist because it
is a high quality idea, but I think it is more shocking to contemplate and
less fuzzy and empty a statement (WHY is reality a high quality idea??
Pirsig doesn't say, but we can now say because the expectation is strong,
because the pattern is strong.)
Oh yeah - a pattern is just an expectation. 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, and then we
expect 32 to follow in the pattern. If 35 follows, then we have no pattern
and no expectation of what's next. The inorganic pattern of a rock and the
social pattern of a ritual are expectations of the rock continuing to exist
and the ritual to be followed. It is the expectation of the pattern
continuing that carries the rock along with us into the future. If there is
no expectation of the pattern carrying forward, the pattern wouldn't carry
forward. Expectations are formed by experience of patterns.
Oh yeah - value is expectation, a dollar bill is only valuable if it can be
expected to buy us something, and every expectation we have is valuable to
us, it is by expecting that we are able to live. Value implies an
expectation that there will be a future in which to cash in what is
valuable, if we don't expect a future, nothing would have value. Value
comes from expectation being realized.
truth is expectation: when we say it is a true fact that the Civil War ended
in 1865, we are saying that we have an expectation that Encarta will say
that the Civil War ended in 1865, we expect Howard Zinn to say it ended in
1865, we expect all the evidence to correlate. We also expect that if all
those sources say it ended in 1820, then it must be true that it ended in
1820, and all further inquiry we expect to agree with that date. If that
expectation is broken by our friend Steve, we have a low quality situation
because we no longer have a strong expectation of what other sources will
say, and we don't know what is true. The stronger the expectation, the more
we believe something to be true.
It is also easy and enlightening to relate Expectation to Morality, and
helps demonstrate that the moral order of the universe and the morals of a
culture are made of the same stuff. A person is expected to behave in
certain ways, to behave morally, and rocks and tree are expected to behave
in certain ways too. It is the same process at work: expectation being
realized, because expectation being realized is Quality, and is what is
expected. The meaning of Expected is both a moral imperitive and a
description of static pattern. A pattern continues because it is expected
to, and it is expected to because it already exists as a pattern. (Think of
the words "should", "supposed" and "expected" and "moral" - they all contain
two intrinsically linked meanings: a description of the way things are, and
an imperitive to behave that way. Neither meaning came first, things
wouldn't be the way they are without the imperitive, and there would be no
imperitive if things weren't that way already.)
>Seems clear to me that DQ's activity
>is about reducing the multi-possible
>into the actual.
Wow this is very similar to what I say about DQ's activity - that it somehow
combines all the various expectations, which are only possibilities until
actually realized, and of which some may be in conflict and mutually
exclusive. It actuallizes the possibiities, realizes the expectations. And
it does it in the way that satisfies the greatest amount of expectation (so
it is really determined by the expectations). In this way DQ determines
which patterns are left in its "wake". High quality patterns, those with
strong expectation, are probably going to be actuallized by DQ, low quality
patterns may be thwarted if another higher quality pattern is in conflict
with it. (Sometimes a low quality pattern may thwart a high quality
pattern, like the underdog beating the favorite, but that must mean that
there are even higher quality patterns that trumped the expectation, like
the pattern of a quarterback getting a concussion when he is thrown really
hard to the ground and having to leave the game.) DQ puts all these things
together and creates the most reasonable, harmonious and beautiful future
from it all.
>Like choice and reason
>are possible only by being aware of the future/possible
>i.e. expectation. Expectation seems to be key
>to evolution, without some kind of choice the cosmos
>seems to be impossible (if you reject initial design)
>as it is. Also in quantum theory the double slit
>experiment of Young, can be interpreted as a single
>electron being influenced by the presence of its
>possibilities, so that a interference pattern is formed.
Ah, yes, I've experienced the double slit experiment myself. Too many
possible slits sure do produce interference ;-) Reminds me of the swami
telling Peter Tork the nature of the universe in Head: "Choice is misery".
(Meanwhile, Mickey and Mike were outside wagering on whether or not a guy
was going to jump off a building to his death). Quality is when the choice
is clear, when expectation is so strong it is invisble, like gravity and
true love.
>Is quantum probability what enables there to be a future?
>Without an open future there would be no DQ.
I don't think the future is open as far as the whole is concerned, but I
think it is open from the standpoint of individual consciouses which have
limited experiences and hence only have partial and often ultimately
incorrect expectations. But since each individual conscious had its
expectations implanted in it by the Morality in which it was formed, these
expectations all make sense - even the wrong ones are understandable and
forgivable - and wind up being reconciled again to the necessary present.
I'm with Einstein on the God doesn't play dice theory, ie, I don't think
that there can be anything that happens without a reason, any arbitrary
results. I do believe that knowledge is always limited though, so
expectation (reality) is always just a probability.
>regards
>David M
regards
Johnny
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