MD ZMM was alright

From: Nathan Pila (pila@sympatico.ca)
Date: Fri Nov 07 2003 - 00:23:46 GMT

  • Next message: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com: "Re: MD quality is ...?"

    Steve,

    What an interesting coincidence. We share some life experience. I taught
    high school mathematics for 30 years and retired a year ago. I, like you,
    taught perms and combs and stats. My background is math and science and more
    or less look at the world through the lense of my training.

    Well Steve, I liked and thought that ZMM was profound in parts and clichéd
    in other parts and incomprehensible to me in still other parts. I agree with
    ZMM that LOGIC and REASONING will not necessarily lead anywhere, but for me
    it does point out what directions are to be avoided.

    There are great mysteries in existence and this sense of wonder gives
    impulse to read stuff like ZMM but for me, now that I've read the thing, the
    mysteries are just as plump. ZMM hasn't yet changed my life; not even at the
    edges; .....well, maybe at the edges.

    I wonder if you know of the incredible work that neuroscientist are doing
    with new technology. Now there is something that leaves me breathless.

    Steve, you say that ZMM points out a disease that has infected society. I
    think you are talking about 'materialism'. Right? Well, materialism, the
    desire to accumulate, is a symptom of something deeper in the human psyche.
    We are hierarchical creatures and we are hard wired to want to impress one
    another.

    I am pleased to have this dialogue with you.

    Nathan

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Steve Peterson" <peterson.steve@verizon.net>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 4:49 PM
    Subject: Re: MD quality is ...?

    > Hi Nathan, All,
    >
    > Nathan said:
    > > Well, I just finished ZMM. I read the last paragraph this afternoon. So,
    > > what is there to say. I'm not sure I liked it. There were parts that
    were
    > > excellent and parts that were too turgid for my taste, but who am I to
    say
    > > what turgid is?
    > >
    > > I want to ask you whether you would say that 'soul' is another word for
    what
    > > ZMM calls Quality? And I am having trouble with 'expectation' as the
    > > synonym. Could you perhaps elaborate?
    >
    > I don't particularly like 'expectation' though Johnny Moral seems to get a
    > lot of mileage out of it. I certainly don't think it is a key to
    unlocking
    > ZMM. 'Soul' doesn't get me anywhere in understanding Quality. See below.
    >
    > It's interesting that you're not sure that you liked ZMM. The sense I
    > sometimes get from those on the list is that the world would be better off
    > if everyone read it (and Lila as well) which reminds me of those folks who
    > try to get people to read the Bible. The Bible isn't likely to mean
    > anything to the hypothetical non-Christian who is finally convinced to
    pick
    > it up. He won't even get passed so and so begat so and so before he is
    > completely turned off by it. I wonder how many people are turned off by
    > Pirsig's books for each of us who found his books to be so mind-blowing.
    >
    > The AP English students at my high school (I teach math and statistics)
    read
    > ZMM (though not part IV which the teacher says isn't so great). I was
    > excited to hear that our kids are reading it, but was disappointed after
    > talking to to many of them about it because none of them were crazy about
    > the book.
    >
    > At first I thought that they were too young to get it. But our AP kids
    are
    > sharp and are capable of following the reasoning, so its not about smarts.
    > I think it's more an issue of having a sense of the cultural disease that
    is
    > being diagnosed. I think to appreciate Pirsig, you have to come into it
    > already uncomfortable with the answers that modern secular thinking gives
    us
    > about the world and ourselves.
    >
    > So, Nathan, is your ambivalence about ZMM that you're not sure about the
    > existence of a disease or not convinced that Pirsig has suggested a
    workable
    > cure?
    >
    > Also, I understand that you're not sure what Pirsig means by Quality.
    Here
    > I'd like to give a an explanation of Pirsig's philosophy in100 words or
    > less. I'd like to...
    >
    > I may give it a try later, but I think there are others (especially Platt
    > and Paul) who could do a better job.
    >
    > Fellow MOQers, what do you say when someone asks you what Pirsig is about?
    > Do you have a brief lecture at the ready for social situations that will
    > pique the interest of friends and relatives rather than put them to sleep?
    >
    > Regards,
    > Steve
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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