From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sat Nov 08 2003 - 16:48:54 GMT
Giving up the theological picture of the cosmos,
looking at it in a cold light and then asking if it has any value.
Mr F.Nietzsche spent his life on these considerations and I would
strongly recommend him. A good intro if you are not familiar is
Richard Schacht, Rorty recommends this book, and you will find
it has a good discussion about being and becoming or sq and dq
as Pirsig likes to put it, but Nietzsche was there first. Mr N is
also quite interested in the idea of levels of complexity.And of course
Mr N is the precursor for much post-modern philosophy via
Heidegger. Yes, the lion might eat the saint, but as Mr N. says the higher
the life the more precarious it is. Mr N's idea of a superman is of course
Goethe.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nathan Pila" < >
To: < >
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: MD quality is ...?
> David,
>
> Can I offer the thought that morality is not grounded on anything. I am
now
> reading a book called The Life of Pi. It is terrific so far. In the book,
> the author describes a zebra being eaten while alive by a hyena over the
> course of a few days. This is nature. Man is part of nature.
>
> Are humans flattering themselves by imagining that our species are ruled
by
> laws that are different than the rules that govern the rest of the
kingdoms
> on earth?
>
> A human being is capable of nearly any act. Who's to say that an act is
> wrong? And if it is wrong, where is the act recorded? In the sky? At the
end
> of ZMM Chris dies. It is a sad tragedy for everyone around in that it
leaves
> a vacuum. But in the wider scheme of things, Chris's death is like the
> zebra's death or my death in the future. Steven Weinberg, the Nobel prize
> winner once said, 'the more the universe comes to be understood, the more
> senseless and without meaning it appears'.
>
> A depressing thought?
>
> Nathan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David MOREY" < >
> To: < >
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 12:16 PM
> Subject: Re: MD quality is ...?
>
>
> > Hi
> >
> > Seems to me you could link expectation to Tao and DQ.
> > It seems important to me to realise how are current experience
> > is very much effected and altered by what our expectations are about the
> > future.
> > Human being is entirely about being faced with choices and a host of
> > possibilities
> > that exist in the future. And clearly when we make a move, when we go
> > forward,
> > we step towards one future and condemn all the others to non-existence.
> > This seems to be central to what it is to be a finite human being. Also
> > it is this finitude that condemns us to a mortal existence in this
world.
> >
> > regards
> > David M
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "johnny moral" < >
> > To: < >
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: MD quality is ...?
> >
> >
> > > Hi Nathan,
> > >
> > > >David,
> > > >
> > > >Well, I just finished ZMM. I read the last paragraph this afternoon.
> So,
> > > >what is there to say. I'm not sure I liked it. There were parts that
> were
> > > >excellent and parts that were too turgid for my taste, but who am I
to
> > say
> > > >what turgid is?
> > > >
> > > >I want to ask you whether you would say that 'soul' is another word
for
> > > >what
> > > >ZMM calls Quality? And I am having trouble with 'expectation' as the
> > > >synonym. Could you perhaps elaborate?
> > > >
> > > >Nathan
> > >
> > > I'd love to hear David's take on Expectation, to see if this meme is
> > taking
> > > hold, but for now I'll defend the synonym myself:
> > >
> > > Think of what we want from quality products - we have certain
> expectations
> > > about them, if they are met, we call it a quality product. But we
also
> > can
> > > expect bad things, like a broken down bicycle with rust and dirt all
> over
> > it
> > > we would expect not to work very well, so we actually feel sublime
> > > satisfaction, quality, when our expectation of it being a bad bicycle
is
> > > met. If it worked very well, it would throw our universe out of
order,
> it
> > > wouldn't be reasonable (though of course we'd investigate and find a
> > reason
> > > and then change our expectations.)
> > >
> > > I've also just posted a huge reply that covers lots of other stuff
about
> > > expectation in a more general sense.
> > >
> > > Not sure about soul. How do you see it as being a synonym for
Quality?
> > >
> > > Johnny
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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