From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Sun Nov 09 2003 - 08:08:22 GMT
Platt n' Paul
7 Nov. Platt wrote to Paul who had said:
> > On a side note, Julian Jaynes has speculated that written language
> > in particular was a major influence on the development of human
> > consciousness as it is experienced today. I plan to explore this (in
> > relation to the MOQ) on the forum when I have a little more time, if
> > you are interested?
Yes, terribly interested.
> I'm very interested in your views on the Jaynes theory of
> consciousness. I've just read Jaynes' paper on the subject, thanks to
> Bo's reference at:
> http://julianjaynessociety.tripod.com/mind.pdf
> Frankly, I found Jaynes' theory less than convincing, but would look
> forward to your analysis of language and the bicameral mind vis a vis
> the MOQ.
You did not specify Platt and it is difficult to know what you found "less
than convincing", to me it is not Jaynes' theory as such (it's all
somish naturally and it sounds like some biological "event" caused
intellect) it's the implication s for the MOQ that counts. As an example
look to the likeness between a couple of Pirsig's letter points and
Jaynes:
..................................................................
Pirsig:
“But if one studies the early books of the Bible or if one studies the
sayings of primitive tribes today, the intellectual level is conspicuously
absent. The world is ruled by Gods who follow social and biological
patterns and nothing else.”
Jaynes:
“Historically we could go further into the New Testament and note the
even greater importance of conscious internalization and changing
behavior from within in contrast to Mosaic law that had shaped
behavior from without”.
Pirsig:
“...but other speculation seems valid. Solon, the Athenian lawgiver,
could be the pivotal point. Maybe Solomon”.
Jaynes:
“If we now move over to Greece just following the period I have been
referring to in Mesopotamia, we can trace the bicameral mind as
shown in the Linear B Tablets, then going through the Iliad, the
Odyssey, through the lyric and elegiac poetry of the next two
centuries, as in Shappo and Archilochus, until we get to Solon in 600
BC. Solon is the first person who seems like us ...etc”.
............................................
There is so much we could delve into, f.ex Daniel Dennett on
language.
http://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/papers/rolelang.htm
but I honestly think we are on to the "origin of the intellectual level ..."
Sincerely
Bo.
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