From: Steve Peterson (peterson.steve@verizon.net)
Date: Sun Nov 09 2003 - 13:16:38 GMT
Hi Nathan, GJ, Johnny,
Nathan said
> Hmm, So, if there is no one in the forest, then the tree makes no sound as
> it falls, right?
>
Steve quotes:
Pirsig in Note #180 of Lila's Child said in relation to that question:
"This is the usual argument against the philosophic idealism that is part
of the MOQ so it had better be answered here. It is similar to the
question, 'If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it, does in make a
sound?' The historic answer of the idealists is, 'What tree?' In order to
ask this question you have to presuppose the existence of the falling
tree and then ask whether this presupposed tree would vanish if nobody
was there. Of course it wouldn't vanish. It has already been
presupposed. This presupposition is a standard logical fallacy known as
a hypothesis contrary to fact. It is the 'hypothetical question' that is
always thrown out of court as inadmissible. If pigs could fly, how high
would they go. The answer is the same as the answer to Dave's
question."
I think Matt would say 'Does anything exist prior to observation?' begs the
question. It is ruled inadmissible by an empiricist because it presupposes
a reality outside experience.
> Did you happen to catch the latest NOVA on PBS? It was about the book called
> The Elegant Universe. The book discusses 'string theory'. String theory
> postulates that all matter and all radiation (photons, heat etc) is composed
> of vibrating strings of energy. That, these strings, are the ultimate
> reality; the strings vibrate in 11 dimensions. Since we can't imagine 11
> dimensions, is it fair to say that only 4 dimensions exist and the strings
> are unreal?
This reminds me of one of my favorite parts of ZAMM--the part about ghosts
(quoted in part below). In 'string theory' we have the scientist's search
for ultimate reality. ("Why is the reality most acceptable to science is
one that no small child can be expected to understand?" Lila, p 103 quoting
Poincare.) Scientists have long ago forgotten that molecules, atoms, and
quarks exist only in the mind. These concepts are aesthetic creations of
the intellect invented to explain and predict experience, as is the idea
that these things are not human inventions.
ZAMM on ghosts:
"``Laws of nature are human inventions, like ghosts. Laws of logic, of
mathematics are also human inventions, like ghosts. The whole blessed thing
is a human invention, including the idea that it isn't a human invention.
The world has no existence whatsoever outside the human imagination. It's
all a ghost, and in antiquity was so recognized as a ghost, the whole
blessed world we live in."
Regards,
Steve
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