From: Paul Turner (paulj.turner@ntlworld.com)
Date: Fri Nov 14 2003 - 11:18:03 GMT
Hi Johnny, Matt
Paul wrote:
"The assertion that "the world causes us to have certain beliefs"
assumes a pre-existing world, a world of causal pressures at least."
Johnny:
I noticed this myself. I think the MoQ says that Quality (Morality)
causes us to have certain beliefs.
Paul:
Precisely.
Johnny:
And then we indeed assume a pre-existing world based on the beliefs that
we currently have.
Paul:
Exactly.
Johnny:
Morality is pre-existing, but isn't quite the same thing as a
pre-existing world.
Paul:
This is exactly my point. The MOQ says that Quality creates beliefs
about a pre-existing physical world. Pragmatists seem to be saying that
a pre-existing *physical* world causes pragmatic beliefs, of which the
pragmatic belief about a pre-existing world is one such belief and round
and round it goes until the pragmatist says "but we're only having a
discussion, I don't do metaphysics..." and continues to successfully
dodge tigers :-)
My suggestion to Matt is that if "the world" is understood as value
(which is fundamentally prior to and neither physical nor mental) the
circularity is avoided. Both the physical (objective) world and
(subjective) beliefs are encompassed in a larger framework of value
which still retains the pragmatic assumption of a pre-existing physical
world. But to assert this is a metaphysical claim which pragmatists
avoid like the plague.
Paul
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