From: Scott R (jse885@spinn.net)
Date: Sat Nov 15 2003 - 04:22:15 GMT
Johnny,
>
> I agree with Paul that you seem to think that the ideas that are "forced
> into your head" must be somehow different from the ideas that you would
> otherwise have.
I made no allusion that the ideas would be different. I experience a set of
ideas, and the question is do I produce them or does Quality produce them.
No, they are the same ideas, there is no difference between
> the ideas that a person has or would have and the ideas that Quality
causes
> them to have. Where do you think ideas come from if not Quality?
Why not say that I create ideas -- and hence am DQ (and SQ of course)? But
because the MOQ says I am only SQ, and must receive any new ideas from DQ,
there is a difference -- not in the ideas, but their presumed source.
>
> You are keen to observe that it is no different from the sound thinking of
> Calvin and Muhommed and Christ and Paul and Augustine and Edwards and
Buddha
> and Lao Tzu etc.
The problem is stopping halfway, a lack of imagination that I don't think
applies to all these gentlemen -- just the first two (though I don't know
about Edwards). I think you're confusing two things: theological determinism
on the one hand, and the need for Grace on the other. I agree with the
latter, but not the former. Yes, the self is contingent, a creation, etc.
But it is different from (our experience of) other creations, like trees and
rocks, in that it is aware of itself, and has free will and hence the
ability of itself creating (and sinning). So there is a contradiction: All
power is God's, but I have power and I am not God, yet because I have power
I must be God. Or I am a deluded dupe, thinking I have power yet having
none. If the latter, then God is evil for deluding me, etc., etc.
Hence my espousal of the logic of contradictory identity. It is the only way
to avoid the sort of stopping-halfway errors of theology, and the MOQ. One
cannot say the self exists, or is free, but one also cannot say that the
self doesn't exist, or is not free (or both or neither). Its freedom depends
on its contingency and boundedness, and vice versa.
- Scott
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