From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Fri Nov 21 2003 - 22:24:57 GMT
Hi Bo, Paul, DMB, All:
Previously I suggested that how and what early man thought was largely
speculation, and that I doubted some of Jaynes' theories. DMB advised
that I was just showing my ignorance and that to correct it I'd do well
to read, among other experts, Joseph Campbell. So from the local
library I got a copy of "The Power of Myth" which is a verbatim record
of conversations Campbell had with NPR's Bill Moyers. As I mentioned
before, I learned from Campbell to my surprise that the U.S. was the
first nation ever to be established on the basis of reason. Imagine my
further surprise when Campbell specifically backed my claim that what
early man thought is largely speculation. Here's the dialogue:
Moyers: You say that the image of death is the beginning of mythology.
What do you mean?
Campbell: The earliest evidence of anything like mythological thinking
is associated with graves.
Moyers: When do you think humans first discovered death?
Campbell: They first discovered death when they were first humans
because they died. Now, animals have the experience of watching their
companions dying. But, as far as we know, they have no further thoughts
about it. And there is no evidence that humans thought about death in a
significant way until the Neanderthal period, when weapons and animal
sacrifices occur with burials.
Moyers: What did these sacrifices represent?
Campbell: That I wouldn't know.
Moyers: Only a guess.
Campbell: I try not to guess. You know, we have a tremendous amount of
information about this subject, but there is a place where the
information stops. And until you have writing, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
PEOPLE WERE THINKING. All you have are significant remains of one kind
or another. YOU CAN EXTRAPOLATE BACKWARD, BUT THAT IS
DANGEROUS (emphasis added)
Thanks for making my point Mr. Campbell.
Since Pirsig equates 'thinking' with intellect, I push intellect back
to early man as the main characteristic that distinguishes humans from
animals. I agree with Paul, however, that intellectual patterns per se
did not arise until the emergence of writing and the ability to 'think
about thinking," or as Paul put it, "latching thoughts as patterns of
thoughts."
Whether an entire culture like Egypt can be called 'intellectual' is
also a matter of conjecture, especially when one tries to apply the
same appellation to the U.S. :-)
Platt
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