From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Sun Nov 23 2003 - 14:54:36 GMT
Hi Bo,
> What early man thought (about) is largely speculation, THAT I agree with
> (is there a distinction here I haven't got) but Jaynes' theory isn't
> about what ancient mankind thought, but that thinking in the self-
> awareness form was absent ...
Joseph Campbell: "Until you have writing you don't know what the people
were thinking."
So, how does Jaynes know they weren't thinking about themselves?
Best regards,
Platt
> About your view being confirmed by Campbell is so well addressed by DMB
> that I won't try to do my own. Even if Campbell is no MOQian his
> approach to the mythological age fits the social epoch (when the Social
> level "reigned"). However, if his works throw any light on the
> Social-Intellectual transition I don't know ...tell us DMB!
>
> ...snip
>
> > Since Pirsig equates 'thinking' with intellect, I push intellect back
> > to early man as the main characteristic that distinguishes humans from
> > animals. I agree with Paul, however, that intellectual patterns per se
> > did not arise until the emergence of writing and the ability to 'think
> > about thinking," or as Paul put it, "latching thoughts as patterns of
> > thoughts."
>
> If Pirsig equates thinking with intellect I question. The more I study
> this part of his letter (to Paul) the more cryptic it gets. It is as if
> he can't bring himself to abandon "thinking", yet does so by pointing to
> "thinking" as something going on at all levels (which makes it
> impossible as a definition). What is meant is of course INTELLIGENCE,
> wonder why this term is such a taboo?
>
> > Whether an entire culture like Egypt can be called 'intellectual' is
> > also a matter of conjecture, especially when one tries to apply the
> > same appellation to the U.S. :-)
>
> Yes, (suddenly) you are right. The Egyptians weren't intellectual in
> the MOQ sense, it makes a mess of the levels to speak about a value
> before the level: Of life before biology ...etc. Their mental powers
> however did not lack, they calculated and built great structures
> physical and mental, thought up mathematical theorems (maybe),
> manipulated symbols logically (used language, verbally and
> hieroglyphically) ...etc. But the background of it all was the
> mythological explanation. The SKEPTICAL INQUIRER arrived with intellect.
>
>
> In my opinion
> Bo
>
>
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