Re: Re: MD Intellect attacks free speech

From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Sat Dec 13 2003 - 10:51:25 GMT

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    Dear Steve, Platt and Mark,

    If what you are discussing is really a proposal to limit campaign funding
    (as Steve described it 11 Dec 2003 14:44:14 -0500) it seems to be exactly
    what I proposed 1 Dec 2003 08:09:21 +0100: that Americans 'do something
    about their elections being bought'! With Steve I don't see at all how that
    would limit free speech. But, I should add: I don't see the -intellectual-
    point of a lot of the venomous political discussions among you Americans
    anyway, so I may miss something important. In my perception they are just
    social level fights for power where those that are not in power (and their
    supporters) automatically and unthinkingly disagree with those in power
    (plus supporters) and vice versa, regardless of the quality of the
    intellectual patterns of value involved.

    Platt wrote 11 Dec 2003 21:28:52 -0500:
    'Don't Europeans consider themselves more intellectual than Americans?'
    Mark replied 12 Dec 2003 15:21:38 EST:
    'Yes! ;-p But is this so? Probably not.'

    In MoQish terms you are both talking nonsense. It is as pointless to call
    Europeans 'more intellectual' than Americans (or vice versa) as it is
    pointless to call a baboon 'more biological' than a rhino. Contrary to
    Pirsig in some of his writing I don't consider it useful either to speak
    about Europeans (or Americans) as 'consisting of a set of inorganic,
    biological, social and intellectual patterns' about which you could say that
    intellectual patterns dominate to a greater or lesser extent. According to
    me a 'European' (or 'American') is a symbolic representation of (part of)
    my/your/our experience that is presented as an object (and occasionally as a
    subject) and that participates in the inorganic, biological, social and
    intellectual patterns that can also be distinguished in my/your/our
    experience. What we could discuss, is whether a specific intellectual
    pattern of value (with relatively high/low intellectual/Dynamic quality) is
    participated in by more 'Europeans' or by more 'Americans'. Because of the
    confusion of SOM-based and MoQ-based terminology (e.g. 'intellectuals' and
    'intellectual patterns of value') we won't come very far with such a
    discussion.

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

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