Re: MD Sit on my faith.

From: Wim Nusselder (wim.nusselder@antenna.nl)
Date: Sat Dec 13 2003 - 13:14:34 GMT

  • Next message: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com: "Re: MD Intellect attacks free speech"

    Dear Khoo Hock Aun,

    Your posting of 11 Dec 2003 23:07:20 +0800 convinced me that Buddhism is not
    a dogmatic religion in your interpretation, which is (for me) a good thing
    as Quakerism (my religious affiliation) isn't either.
    I guess you will recognize your views in the quote from a famous Quaker
    (William Penn, the founder of Pennsylvania) which I quoted before on this
    list:
    'The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious, and devout souls are everywhere of
    one religion; and when death has taken off the mask, they will know one
    another, though the divers liveries they wear here makes them strangers.'
    (1693)

    You quote Siddharta Gautama as having said:
    "The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will
    become of you, depend on no one.
    Only the moment you reject all help are you freed"

    The first part reminds me of what I know as a poster-text made by British
    Quakers: "Our greed and our fear are destroying our future." (When I quoted
    that on this list before, someone replied that he knew it as a Buddhist
    saying. Quakers may have taken it from a Buddhist source.) That always
    struck me as very 'true' or rather 'Meaningful', but I prefer the opposite
    which I coined as: "Our trust and our selfless commitment are building our
    future".
    I don't understand the second part of your quote ("depend on no one ...").
    Depending on others doesn't seem a problem to me if it is part of (more or
    less equal) mutual dependence. It is unequal dependence that limits freedom.
    Freedom is meaningless and worthless without (equal) mutual dependencies
    (static patterns of value) to work with and build upon. If you would reject
    all dependence and participate in no static patterns of value any more
    (which is impossible), you would be 'free from' everything, but not 'free
    to' attain anything worthwhile either. Is hope that's not the
    'enlightenment' Buddhists strive for?!

    At the end you write:
    'If anything, the buddhism is merely a "Manual for One's Personal
    Salvation - Use What Works For You"'.

    Can Buddhism also provide a manual for collective salvation, "how to help
    the static patterns of value that connect us migrate towards Dynamic
    Quality" instead of "how to dissolve them"?

    With friendly greetings,

    Wim

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Dec 13 2003 - 13:15:42 GMT