From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Fri Dec 19 2003 - 21:13:00 GMT
Bo/Matt
Actually I think once Pirsig has put the MOQ out there it
has a life of its own. If Bo convinces us that he can improve
the consistency of the package good luck to him. However, I still
can't follow what the argument is. I personally find the levels problematic
as does Sam. I think that it could be developed around a the different
levels
of freedom rather than complexity and dependence, so being closer to value
of DQ.
Bo where will I find your best constructed argument? I can't see it
in the essays page.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "MATTHEW PAUL KUNDERT" <mpkundert@students.wisc.edu>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: MD MoQ versions
> Paul, Bo,
>
> Paul said:
> Lila's Child is a rarity in that it has given Pirsig the opportunity to
respond to the way his work has been understood and interpreted. For me it's
great because, as I said, I'm interested in what Pirsig intended. For Bo,
it's terrible because it is made clear that Bo got it wrong. But rather than
continue to develop "Bo's MOQ" as a valid but distinct alternative, we find
Bo trying to convince us that SOLAQI is what Pirsig really meant to write
and that half of Lila and everything that follows (SODV, LC, correspondence)
is some kind of watered down version produced as a response to criticism or
lack of acceptance.
>
> Matt:
> I completely agree that if Bo is suggesting that his interpretation is
what Pirsig "really meant to write," he's trying to stand on water. What I
was suggesting is that Bo should drop the pretensions of excavating Pirsig,
and start talking about excavating himself. Like me, it allows him still to
say, "This is what Pirsig _should_ have written," just as Rorty says the
same thing about Dewey and Derrida.
>
> Bo said:
> Maybe you intend it as some support, but I much prefer accusations of
having distorted Pirsig's MOQ, these I may refute, while the Rortyan
approach is completely sterile. I still uphold that there is a conclusion
from the original Phaedrus' ideas that the author of ZMM did not care/dare
draw/invoke.
>
> Matt:
> See, this is Bo showing pretensions and being careful about what he is
claiming. Bo first says he is not distorting the MoQ, but I'm not sure what
MoQ he is not distorting. The only MoQ I know of is Pirsig's. The only way
for Bo to claim he isn't distorting the MoQ, without having to say he can
read Pirsig's mind better than Pirsig, is that there is a MoQ sitting "out
there" that he is reading and elaborating better than Pirsig. This is his
(SOMic) pretension. However, Bo also is basically saying that his
extrapolations of ZMM are what Pirsig _should_ be thinking, as when he says,
"there is a conclusion from the original Phaedrus' ideas that the author of
ZMM did not care/dare draw/invoke." Oddly enough, against his wishes Bo's
basically taken my advice from my original post, though the residual
pretension is why I said "Bo, however, is close but still not at this point
because he still retains the notion of a TRUE MoQ."
>
> So, the skeptic question for Bo is, How do you KNOW your MoQ is the TRUE
MoQ?
>
> Paul, Wim, Sam, and I don't have to answer the skeptic because we don't
care about any TRUE MoQ outside of the MoQ between Pirsig's pages.
>
> Bo said:
> Thanks Matt, but no thanks.
>
> Matt:
> Friends like these, eh Bo?
>
> Matt
>
>
>
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