From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Wed Dec 24 2003 - 10:23:23 GMT
David M. and Discourse
22 Dec. you wrote:
> Interesting post. Starting to grasp what you are saying I think.
Hope I don't spoil it by elaborating ;-)
> Society and language clearly makes what we think of as
> individuals possible. And surely there is a link between individualisation
> and reason,
Agree. The individual in the "me Tarzan you Jane" sense was
established with the 3rd. level, but the individual entitled to freedom
and rights was not.
> because reason attempts to get away from lots of
> different points of view to its objective stancwe and hence SOM.
Exactly. Reason (objective truth over subjective opinion) was what
replaced the mythological era when emotions ruled. This shift
Pirsig gives a most convincing account of in ZMM.
> But where intellect is now is perhaps not the last word on its
> final fruition. I think other thinks have to be brought in.
Intellect is a STATIC level! We must shun all tendencies to make it
into SOM's mind realm that contains ALL and sundry.
> Whilst evolution moves towards reliable technology/materials
> to begin with like DNA in returns to DQ and seeks a more
> free and developed position.
Hope I get you right here. Yes, all levels' basic patterns seems to
be the most reliable. I don't know what the basic inorganic patterns
are, nor do I know much about biology, but life's earliest forms are
the most resilient. After that the (biological) evolution is rather
towards greater complexity ...a necessity for the next value
increment.
> So perhaps from the constraints
> of SOM, intellect is moving on to MOQ. Certainly what Pirsig
> has to say about quality/experience/value is going beyond SOM
> within the realm of intellect.
"SOM within the realm of intellect" ...? What is intellect beside the
SOM? P. of ZMM inquiry into SOM's premises revealed a void
(what made him drop out of school) and along many tortuous by-
ways construct the MOQ ...in which P's struggle with SOM
translates to MOQ's struggle to escape intellect.
> How do you square the role of value with
> intellect post-SOM?
"Intellect post-SOM" ...? There can't be any post-SOM intellect
because intellect IS the value of the S/O distinction. I must be
adamant here because any notion of intellect as a mental vessel
"containing" the SOM and the MOQ is inconsistent with the way I
understand the MOQ ....at least.
> I think the levels need to be shown to move
> from nothing/freedom/photons to material/determined/molecular reality
Hmmm, "nothing/freedom/photons"? Is that the sub-inorganic and
"..material/determined/molecular reality" ..the 'ordinary' inorganic
development?
> to life/achieveed freedom, with this endless move to SQ/constriant
> to achieve actuality and then away from actuality back to DQ/freedom.
Sounds a bit high-faluting :-)
In my opinion
Bo
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