From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Fri Jan 09 2004 - 17:57:30 GMT
Hi Platt
You said:"distortion by
> personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations."
I wonder:
Why should the personal distort? The personal
perspective is what we all start with. Can we escape it?
Can we extract what is personal from what we experience?
Is this not where we begin to split our experience into primary
and secondary qualities, associating the latter with subjectivity
and the former with objectivity and so everything falls on one
side of the SO divide or the other. Yet we can clearly go beyond
our personal view, we can imagine what things are like from
someone elses perspective, this is really adding something to what
we experience rather than removing distortions, we can communicate
and be told about all sorts of different perspectives, from different
countries, from different cultures, different times, and even from the moon.
Even visual images, like the Earth from the moon, help with this gaining
of what is really a multi-perspective conception that we use to grasp
ideas about life, world, cosmos. It is only for such
super-complex-multi-perspectives that something like a world can emerge.
Animals don't have a world like human being do.
You can undertand what I mean by this multi-built-perspective if you ask
yourself, do I really know the world is round? The most convincing evidence
must be
standing on the moon, but most of us have not done this, someone else has
experienced it for
us and allowed us to move from our limited perspective to a less personal
one.
Using the word objectivity seems to embrace the idea of 'primary and
secondary qualities'
that Pirsig tries to get away from by his sticking simply to the word
'Quality'. The
clever thing about primary qualities are that they are descriptions of
experience that we can
more readily agree about than the so-called secondary ones. E.G number.
Don't know many
people who would disagree about what a '2' is, but are the two eyes telling
the
truth, or are they beautiful is another matter.
On the whole problem of the relationship between numbers and values see
excellent
article below at:
http://www.onlineoriginals.com/showitem.asp?itemID=287&articleID=18
it is by a British mathematician who is asking questions about the notions
of number, space and time in the context of the challenge to these ideas by
Whitehead, Bohm,
Bergson and Shledrake. I think this will interest anyone here with an
interest in science and
process theory and it is not technical.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: MD Measuring values
> Hi David M,
>
> > Can you try to explain what you mean by objective as it
> > is a word I generally avoid? Especially when the MOQ is
> > meant to offer explanations in terms of SQ/DQ rather than
> > subject-object? Or do you mean objective in a different sense?
>
> I mean "objective" according to the dictionary definition: "Expressing or
> dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by
> personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations."
>
> > I stick only to talking about values or according to
> > experience, or current data, or IMO, or it hangs
> > togther nicely, or has greater explanatory power,
> > or seems to work, or seems to avoid falling into the trap of X,
> > or avoids the contradictions of Y,..etc..
>
> As I see it you stick to the value of objectivity as defined above, always
> trying to keep your personal biases out of your assessments of reality.
>
> Regards,
> Platt
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archives:
> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> Nov '02 Onward -
http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Jan 09 2004 - 18:06:38 GMT