Re: MD Re: Rorty (Big Self & small self)

From: Scott R (jse885@spinn.net)
Date: Tue Jan 13 2004 - 04:25:47 GMT

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    David M,

    > Scott said:
    >
    > Yes, the static patterns manifest DQ, but my objection is that Pirsig
    takes
    > this in a nominalistic way, as evidenced by his considering DQ as
    > "pre-intellectual", and in general seeing the intellect as covering up DQ.
    >
    > DM: I guess my view, to offer an alternative, is that DQ clearly underlies
    > all SQ so one approach to DQ is to
    > get away from all differentiation/intellect. However, another way pushes
    > intellect as far as it can go, intellect clearly
    > covers up the existence of DQ/Becoming as argues by Heidegger/Bhaskar in
    the
    > form of SOM, however there is the
    > possibility of pushing intellect out beyond SOM, where, in a way, as
    > Heidegger says 'thinking breaks' and you arrive
    > back at DQ, and in an intellectually more profound way having passed
    through
    > the limitations of SOM.

    I would disagree with "DQ clearly underlies all SQ". As I see it, neither
    exists without the other, each totally depends on the other while
    contradicting the other. So one cannot underlie the other. So I don't
    accept, for example, Pirsig's picture of DQ being a "leading edge" that
    leaves SQ in its wake.

    The approach to DQ to "get away from all differentiation/intellect" is, as I
    see it, an example of falling into Wilber's pre/trans fallacy. One should
    not be seeking to "arrive back" at DQ, but to Know DQ in all SQ, and the
    most direct route for that is through thinking. Not to reason it out, but to
    learn to perceive the thinking process, and not just to observe already
    thought thoughts (here I am paraphrasing Georg Kuhlewind, for example in
    "Stages of Consciousness", and he is explicating Rudolf Steiner.) So, yes to
    the possibility of "pushing intellect out beyond SOM", to something more
    profound, though I don't think anything breaks but the ego.

    - Scott

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