From: Ian Glendinning (ian@psybertron.org)
Date: Thu Jan 22 2004 - 22:50:10 GMT
I think there is no doubt Young's stuff parallel's Pirsig - this has been
raised several times on MD during my short association with it.
The recursiveness is spooky (I'm working on a "circle of life" analogy of my
own at the moment)
Also interesting is the 4 v 7 relationship. The interfaces between the
layers are at least as interesting as the layers.
An adage of mine when dividing any problem / situation into layers is that
whatever basis you choose to analyse, ultimately every layer has three
layers itself.
A layer interacting with the layer below.
A layer within itself.
A layer interacting with the layer above.
Ian Glendinning
----- Original Message -----
From: "David MOREY" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: MD Pirsig and Young
> Hi
>
> Here's a posting about levels from the
> Arthur M Young chat group, I think there
> are clear links with Pirsig if anyone is
> interested:
>
> David M
>
> (For the archive and for study-discuss;posted in several newsgroups)
>
>
> Paradigms for trans-disciplinary study: a breakthrough
>
> With the formulation by Arthur M. Young of his theory of process
> (TOP) a breakthrough has been reached in our understanding of how to
> apply analogy to natural process. Arthur has formulated a seven-stage
> reflexive process that occurs on four levels of reality. See
> www.arthuryoung.com
> Briefly, the levels remind me of the old Kabbalistic Four Worlds,
> BUT, Arthur has formulated four levels in a scientific manner, thus
> (very, very briefly in my paraphrase and interpretation):
>
> First level: potential and signal level. Relatively undifferentiated
> stage 1 and fully developed stage 7 occur on this level. Stage 7 is a
> coordinating, synthetic, embracing, level. "Archetypical". An impuls
> or signal works on a unit of matter (e.g, cell) or cosmologically
> awakens a center to manifest life. In photosynthesis, there is the
> light-quantum or photon that acts as a trigger for a process of
> condensation (formation of sugars/starch, fourth level, fourth stage,
> fifth substage (polymers)). Causa finalis of Aristoteles. Stage 7, in
> my interpretation, can emanate signals (e.g., hormones or other
> substances/signals) that feedback to stage 1 or trigger a new
> process. To be researched in depth.
>
> Second level: Here polarisation occurs, resulting in a kind of
> binding. In order for matter to develop, it must be differentiated,
> i.e. differences in character, properties, etc. must become manifest.
> This can only be done by and through a polarisation/separation/charge
> manifestation process, often involving electrons and protons
> (chemically speaking). Most interestingly, on this level associations
> (bindings, ionic and value-driven) occur (second stage) and networks
> (sixth stage, binding in complex structures) as evidenced in the
> formation of cell-clusters, islands (all second stage), etc., in
> embryogenesis, bone-formation, thought-development, neural network
> (sixth stage) and many other processes. It is also the level where
> movement occurs.
> In photosynthesis, there is electron-transport and the generation of
> a proton-motive force, the result of the polarization of a membrane
> and resulting transport of protons. Causa efficiens (Aristoteles). In
> mythology: the separation of the firmaments (heaven and earth).
>
> Third level: Here the establishment of a centre occurs (third stage
> of Young). It entails also the organization of matter. Energy plays
> an important role here as a cofactor in organization. The third
> stage is a formative stage par excellence. The blueprint for
> structures is being unfolded here, to continue later to the combined
> (molecular) fourth stage, on the fourth level: the combination and
> control stage. The third level contains the fifth stage: growth,
> organization, chain-formation, throwing off centers (seeds) that is
> exemplified by plants (but there are many examples of organization
> for all kinds of beings). In photosynthesis there is ATP formation
> (synthesis), storage of energy in ATP-bonds, probably occuring on
> this level. Causa formalis (Aristoteles).
> For human consciousness: ego formation as paradigmatic for the third
> stage, while in the fifth stage one will have to transcend personal
> ego (more about that in a separate article) - the personality will
> become transformed into individuality (Self-realization, in stages).
>
> Fourth level: Here we find combinations (of combinations) as
> exemplified by organs (built of tissues) and molecules. From simple
> molecules such as CO2, H2O all the way up to complex molecules as
> polymers (5th substage), proteins (6th substage) and DNA/RNA (7th
> substage) according to Arthur Young. On this level the turning point
> is reached: matter finds its grossest, visible, expression in
> molecules and the upward arc will bring plants, animals and humans as
> highly organized beings in the evolutionary process. Photosynthesis:
> carbon fixation where starch/sugar is synthesized (a big energy/food
> reservoir).
> Causa materialis (Aristoteles).
>
> Note that photosynthesis and photorespiration share a basic
> underlying 'mechanism'. This sharing of mechanism (means) may turn
> out to be elucidative for cooperation between the downward arc and
> upward phase of the seven stage arc.
> There is much more to this paradigm, such as constraining factors
> relating to space and time, but I refer you to Arthur M. Young's
> book "The Reflexive Universe".
> Also, I posit that material structure and consciousness/energy work
> tightly together (as indeed is visible on all the four levels), but I
> will post some separate examples elucidating some aspects of the
> model later on in this group and/or the Arthur Young e-group (Yahoo).
>
> Martin Euser
> www.euser.net
> martin@euser.fol.nl
>
>
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/
> http://www.arthuryoung.com/
> http://www.rahul.net/raithel/AMYoung/
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
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