From: Mati Palm-Leis (mpalm@merr.com)
Date: Sat Jan 24 2004 - 08:32:13 GMT
Paul, Bo and others,
Paul:
I understand it too, but I disagree with it because it is incompatible
with the rest of the MOQ.
Mati: Well maybe we understand things differently about SOLAQI. I
apologize for not keeping up with the various objections to Bo ideas,
could you summarize how SOLAQI is "incompatible", and from my vantage
point I can see how SOLAQI is true to the ideas of MOQ.
Paul:
I'm not sure what faith has to do with it, but if by SOM you mean the
belief that reality is reducible to either matter or to mind or to some
combination of the two, then I think I have the capacity to see SOM and
how it works.
Mati: When we talk about defining the "Mind" or "consciousness" related
to the mind then, there seems to be distorted faith related to SOM. Our
"minds" idea is somewhat an illusion created by SOM. Ditch the "M" and
our "minds" are no longer this mystic apparition but rather see
ourselves as the rational reflection that is contrasted from S/O divide.
Mati previously said:
SOM is the "new mythos" that is engrained in this "body of knowledge
that unites our minds". The problem is S/O Metaphysics, not the S/O
divide.
Paul:
Agreed. The MOQ retains and resolves the S/O divide as the distinction
between inorganic-biological patterns and social-intellectual patterns.
"The Metaphysics of Quality resolves the relationship between intellect
and society, subject and object, mind and matter, by embedding all of
them in a larger system of understanding. Objects are inorganic and
biological values; subjects are social and intellectual values. They are
not two mysterious universes that go floating around in some
subject-object dream that allows them no real contact with one another.
They have a matter-of-fact evolutionary relationship." [Lila p.344]
Mati: MOQ also resolves "Mystic" subjective reality into the social and
intellect. By doing so "M" is sent packing and the S/O reality can be
seen for what it is. It is the basis for how we see ourselves
"individually" as a specific value and understand ourselves in relation
to all the other realities.
Mati previously said:
The reality is that Mankind through SOM has been reaping the benefits of
the S/O divide while suffering the consequences of "M". Zen Buddhism
seemed to see this and side stepped this notion of SOM all together. In
any case when man was able to use the SOM mirror he was able to see
himself as he had never seen himself before. It was this new capacity
that creates the new "intellect" level.
Paul:
Or it was the new capacity of intellect, the capacity for abstract
thought, which enabled man to see himself as never before. I argue that
it was not that SOM enabled intellect but that it was intellect that
enabled SOM.
Mati: "intellect enabled SOM" sounds like "The mind enabled SOM". Then
we are back to mystic reality of the mind that gets us no where. Part of
it is debunking the myth of the mind. Pirsig wrote, "There isn't any
"man independent of patterns. Man is patterns." Lila 179 I sense that
this becomes more clear with SOLAQI.
Mati previously said:
I would modify the SOM to S/O divide and then for a brief moment
consider this. The "true intellectual value" of knowledge can be a
reflection and be seen in the S/O mirror. Every last bit of it.
Paul:
I'm sorry Mati but you lost me here.
Mati: That's ok, it took me awhile to understand it to. One of the
beliefs is that SOLAQI is seen as ugly and confining. I see it as
liberating to understand ourselves as we are, no more no less. S/O
reality provides for the distinct mirror to see who we are with a sense
of dignity and honesty that SOM failed. And that is a very special
understanding.
Sincerely,
Mati
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