From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Sun Jan 25 2004 - 20:33:30 GMT
Hi Steve,
> Platt said:
> > Bo's position that each level is of "one value," namely S/O, is directly
> > contradicted by Pirsig in several places, some previously cited. The
> > citation that clinches the argument for me in Pirsig's favor is the
> > following from Chp. 8 of LIla:
> >
> > "There are many sets of intellectual reality in existence and we can
> > perceive some to have more quality than others . . ."
> >
> > A question still remains unanswered, however. What level "perceives" that
> > the intellectual level contains "many sets" of intellectual patterns of
> > varying quality? An eye cannot see itself.
Steve said:
> It is not a "level" that perceives. Experience or awareness cannot itself
> be a type of static pattern of experience. If Quality creates the static
> patterns that represent our perceptions, it makes sense to me that Quality
> is synonymous with awareness. Say hello to now!
In another post you wrote ". . . the dolphin could not perceive any value
in the pattern of spoken symbols . . ." and attributed its learning
ability to the biological (instinct) level and perhaps the social
(copying) level. So, in the dolphin's case it would seem its awareness is
a function of its level, yet you say its awareness "cannot itself by a
type of static pattern of experience."
It seems to me that awareness (Quality) at all levels is closely
associated with the level in which the awareness occurs. A fish cannot see
the ocean it lives in. So, to escape from a one level of awareness to be
able to look at, examine and judge that level (as we are able to examine
and judge a dolphin's awareness) one must, it seems to me, rise to a
higher level.
What would you think of calling a level that could look down and evaluate
the patterns of the intellectual level a level of mystic awareness? Or, if
level bothers you, how about a "state" of pure experience, ie. Quality. Or
is "state"and "level" always a static pattern in your mind and thus
disqualified as descriptive of Quality awareness? (Recall that "now" is
both static and dynamic simultaneously. The present never changes, but
whatever changes changes in the present.)
Regards,
Platt
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