From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Tue Feb 10 2004 - 00:00:31 GMT
Part 2.
PIRSIG in ZMM:
> "Digging back into ancient Greek history, to the time when this
> mythos-to-logos transition was taking place, Phaedrus noted that the
> ancient rhetoricians of Greece, the Sophists, had taught what they
> called aretê, which was a synonym for Quality."
Bo:
The mythos-to-logos transition! Yes, there was on such and as
Pirsig in LILA says that the mythological reality represents the
social structure then LOGOS must be the intellectual structure.
It's written all over the place! How can anyone avoid seeing this?
Is it some plot? ;-)
Mark 7-02-04: Plot? In a way, yes. Because the victors write the history, and
you are supporting it. When it is said in ZMM: 'Digging back into ancient
Greek history, to the time when this mythos-to-logos transition was taking place.…
' what is being noted is that the official version of Western history says
this. But official Western history is written by philosophers.
Pirsig:
> Aretê is a synonym for Quality.
Bo:
Yes, it became so by the Quality Metaphysics!
Mark:
The Sophists never tried to define it,
Bo:
Well according to Protagoras the human being was the source of
everything, necessarily of Aretê too.
Mark 9-02-04: Higher excellence measures lower excellence. Aretê is not a
secondary quality of man as substance, it is fleetingly evident in action. The
sweet spot. Excellence is Dynamic while truth is static.
> and Socrates could not define it. Neither could Plato or Aristotle,
> although they tried, and that lead to Substance is real, Quality is
> not.
Bo:
It was a long development from the first search for "..what was
imperishable ...etc." to Aristotle where the new intellectual reality
it found its first somish form of Appearance/Substance.
Mark 9-02-04: It's all in the moment. Any static myth emerges from the
Dynamic moment. Dynamic Intellect creates the static social myth.
> Had Protagoras been able to present his views for himself, we
> would have had American C20 pragmatist - like ideas challenging
> Substance, and suggesting that Quality is real but indefinable, while
> Substance was just one way among many of categorising past experience.
> Because Aristotle's ideas had full social acceptance our mythos has
> been a history filled with a very rigid structure. But, the
> intellectual views of Protagoras have never gone away...
We DO have Protagoras among us in the shape of Matthew P.
Kundert! and he is not exactly your darling, but those who
confront him are powerless as long as the MOQ is treated as
some intellectual "Born-Again" Sophism with rationality (SOM) a
"bad" intellectual idea. It plays straight into his hands.
Mark 9-02-04: Matt may be judged upon his own Quality.
Mark.
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