From: Matthew Poot (mattpoot@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Feb 28 2004 - 19:35:57 GMT
hello.
DM: It is only SOM
that leads us to secular thinking, so with MOQ is it time for some
post-secular
thinking? Perhaps after religion and science something new emerges that
goes beyond both?
-=*P00T*=-: So we come back to it. Post-secular. I agree. If you take
away the ideas of a supreme being, who is sort of 'all knowing' and other
various omni-, than all of these "prophets" are smart. I want to relate the
messages of some of these to the MoQ. But, I can't stress enough, that the
MoQ is completely free of burdens of religious texts. ZMM (or Lila) are not
Bibles written by a prophet.
Quality is a much ..better...concept than god, IMO. They are not the same,
and I am not trying to say that they are. Read on.
I have recieved a few interesting pamphlets published by the Ahmadiyya
Movement in Islam. Here are some interesting exerpts, which I can let you
draw your own conclusions. They were pretty obvious to me.
The 'prophet' Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) said that Jihad involging armed
warfare is now prohibited, while the tast of fighting the 'greater jihad'
e.e. the Jihad against self' was all the more imperative.
Concerning Jesus: " The Holy Qur'an mentions several miracles of Jesus,
including his ability to create birds, his ability to cure the leprous and
the blind., and raising the dead to life.
The ability to create birds is a metaphor meaning , ordinary people who
accepted the teachings of Jesus were spiritually transformed into birds,
soaring high into the loftyregions of the spiritual firmament above all
worldly concerns.
The healing powers can alsobe understood in the spiritual sense. He
restored sight to those people who were spiritually blind, and gave life to
those spiritually dead.
***Jesus specifaclly referred to the Pharisees of his day as being blind,
because, among other maladies, they were hypocritical in nature***"
Concerning Jihad: "One must also distinguish between a 'lesser jihad' and
a 'greater jihad'. *******The 'greater jihad' - and therefor the most
important one - is also called 'Jihad against self'.
**The 'greater jihad' is a lifelong conscious __striving__ incumbent on
every muslim**
The 'lesser jihad' is fighting in self defense against an enemy that has
initiated attack."
Poot: Mountains. Why are we (am I) drawn to Mountains? I have never seen
a (real, constituting a large) mountain , and yet I have to go to the
mountains (which I am doing this spring :).
Moses went up the mountain, and came down a different man.
Muhammed went up the mountain, and came down a different man.
Pirsig went up into mountains, and ...........
I dont think that Moses or Muhammed are anything but humans like we are.
They just came to a greater realisation. What they associated they're
realisation was with a supreme being, which has been secular belief for who
knows how long.
Atheism is not necessarily suitable for change(I have to think more).
Neither is religion. When you put in a Godhead, then you increase the
propensity for the narrowing of thought in some ways.\
Atheism, religion. :"Both are valid ways of looking at the world although
irreconcilabe with eachother:" - Pirsig, concerning Classic Romantic
thought.
You can never 'put all of your eggs in one basket', by either professing
that god exists, or does not exist.
There are some questions that are just left, hanging there. (pirsig said
this somwhere in ZMM , but I cant find it.)
When you look at a figure(either science, or religion) as being supreme,
than you put all of your eggs in one basket, and make a truth, which can-not
possibly be true.
"If all hypotheses cannot be tested, then the results of any experiment are
inconclusive and the entire scientific method falls short of its goal of
establishing proven knowledge"
"The cause of our current social crises, he would have said, is a genetic
defect within the nature of reason itself. And until this genetic defect is
cleared, the crisis will continue. Our current modes of rationality are
not moving society forward into a better world. They are taking it further
and further from that better world. Since the Renaissance these modes have
worked. As long as the need for food, clothing, and shelter is dominant,
they will continue to work. But now that for huge masses of people, these
needs no longer overwhelm everything else, the whole structure of reason,
handed down to us from ancient times, is no longer adequate. It begins to
be seen for what it really is---emotionally hollow, esthetically
meaningless, and spiritually empty. That , today, is where it is at, and
will continue to be at for a long time to come." ZMM, 102
This is why I posted about slowly trying to change things in another thread.
Slowly, but surely.
This is getting long, and I'm to "lazy" to review what I've written.
Comments?
Matthew Poot
P.S. So what is it about mountains>?
" Theres mountain air in this room, It's cool and moist and fragrant. One
deep breath makes me ready for the next one, and then the next one, and
with each deep breath I feel a little readier until I jump out of bed, and
pull up the shade and let all that sunlight in---brilliant , cool, bright,
sharp , and clear." 11
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