From: Matthew Poot (mattpoot@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Mar 12 2004 - 07:42:18 GMT
Hello all,
I think this quote may make this more interesting?
"To doubt the literal meaning of the words of Jesus or Moses incurs
hostility from most people, but it's just a fact that if Jesus or Moses were
to appear today, unidentified, with the same message he spoke many years
ago, his mental stability would be challenged. This isn't because what
Jesus or Moses said was untrue, or because modern society is in error, but
simply because the route they chose to reveal to others, has lost relecance
and comprehensibility. "Heaven above" fades from meaning when space-age
consciousness asks, Where is "above"?
"Mountains like these and travelers in the mountains and events that happen
to them here, are found not only in Zen literature, but in every major
religion"
Poot
----- Original Message -----
From: Matthew Poot <mattpoot@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 2:35 PM
Subject: MD MOQ , Islam, Jesus, and....mountains?
> hello.
>
> DM: It is only SOM
> that leads us to secular thinking, so with MOQ is it time for some
> post-secular
> thinking? Perhaps after religion and science something new emerges that
> goes beyond both?
>
>
> -=*P00T*=-: So we come back to it. Post-secular. I agree. If you take
> away the ideas of a supreme being, who is sort of 'all knowing' and other
> various omni-, than all of these "prophets" are smart. I want to relate
the
> messages of some of these to the MoQ. But, I can't stress enough, that
the
> MoQ is completely free of burdens of religious texts. ZMM (or Lila) are
not
> Bibles written by a prophet.
>
> Quality is a much ..better...concept than god, IMO. They are not the
same,
> and I am not trying to say that they are. Read on.
>
> I have recieved a few interesting pamphlets published by the Ahmadiyya
> Movement in Islam. Here are some interesting exerpts, which I can let you
> draw your own conclusions. They were pretty obvious to me.
>
> The 'prophet' Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (1835-1908) said that Jihad involging
armed
> warfare is now prohibited, while the tast of fighting the 'greater jihad'
> e.e. the Jihad against self' was all the more imperative.
>
> Concerning Jesus: " The Holy Qur'an mentions several miracles of Jesus,
> including his ability to create birds, his ability to cure the leprous and
> the blind., and raising the dead to life.
>
> The ability to create birds is a metaphor meaning , ordinary people who
> accepted the teachings of Jesus were spiritually transformed into birds,
> soaring high into the loftyregions of the spiritual firmament above all
> worldly concerns.
>
> The healing powers can alsobe understood in the spiritual sense. He
> restored sight to those people who were spiritually blind, and gave life
to
> those spiritually dead.
>
> ***Jesus specifaclly referred to the Pharisees of his day as being blind,
> because, among other maladies, they were hypocritical in nature***"
>
> Concerning Jihad: "One must also distinguish between a 'lesser jihad'
and
> a 'greater jihad'. *******The 'greater jihad' - and therefor the most
> important one - is also called 'Jihad against self'.
>
> **The 'greater jihad' is a lifelong conscious __striving__ incumbent on
> every muslim**
>
> The 'lesser jihad' is fighting in self defense against an enemy that has
> initiated attack."
>
>
> Poot: Mountains. Why are we (am I) drawn to Mountains? I have never
seen
> a (real, constituting a large) mountain , and yet I have to go to the
> mountains (which I am doing this spring :).
>
> Moses went up the mountain, and came down a different man.
> Muhammed went up the mountain, and came down a different man.
> Pirsig went up into mountains, and ...........
>
> I dont think that Moses or Muhammed are anything but humans like we are.
> They just came to a greater realisation. What they associated they're
> realisation was with a supreme being, which has been secular belief for
who
> knows how long.
>
> Atheism is not necessarily suitable for change(I have to think more).
> Neither is religion. When you put in a Godhead, then you increase the
> propensity for the narrowing of thought in some ways.\
>
> Atheism, religion. :"Both are valid ways of looking at the world although
> irreconcilabe with eachother:" - Pirsig, concerning Classic Romantic
> thought.
>
> You can never 'put all of your eggs in one basket', by either professing
> that god exists, or does not exist.
> There are some questions that are just left, hanging there. (pirsig said
> this somwhere in ZMM , but I cant find it.)
>
> When you look at a figure(either science, or religion) as being supreme,
> than you put all of your eggs in one basket, and make a truth, which
can-not
> possibly be true.
>
> "If all hypotheses cannot be tested, then the results of any experiment
are
> inconclusive and the entire scientific method falls short of its goal of
> establishing proven knowledge"
>
> "The cause of our current social crises, he would have said, is a genetic
> defect within the nature of reason itself. And until this genetic defect
is
> cleared, the crisis will continue. Our current modes of rationality are
> not moving society forward into a better world. They are taking it
further
> and further from that better world. Since the Renaissance these modes
have
> worked. As long as the need for food, clothing, and shelter is dominant,
> they will continue to work. But now that for huge masses of people, these
> needs no longer overwhelm everything else, the whole structure of reason,
> handed down to us from ancient times, is no longer adequate. It begins to
> be seen for what it really is---emotionally hollow, esthetically
> meaningless, and spiritually empty. That , today, is where it is at, and
> will continue to be at for a long time to come." ZMM, 102
>
> This is why I posted about slowly trying to change things in another
thread.
> Slowly, but surely.
>
> This is getting long, and I'm to "lazy" to review what I've written.
>
> Comments?
>
> Matthew Poot
>
>
> P.S. So what is it about mountains>?
>
> " Theres mountain air in this room, It's cool and moist and fragrant. One
> deep breath makes me ready for the next one, and then the next one, and
> with each deep breath I feel a little readier until I jump out of bed, and
> pull up the shade and let all that sunlight in---brilliant , cool, bright,
> sharp , and clear." 11
>
>
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