From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Thu Mar 04 2004 - 18:43:49 GMT
Hi Poot
Yeah I think this big wastage/pointlessness/lack of real
use of paid work is key to many of our social problems.
Sure, we could all do loads of useful stuff that was not paid
if we did not have time. Also, I think that due to productive
efficiency and computers lots of people spend time at work
actually doing very little anyway. Take the example of
Pirsig having to maintain his own bike because paying someone
to do it is close to useless.
regards
David M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Poot" <mattpoot@hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: MD Quality and In-e-quality
> Hello Dave,
>
> We all want Quality in our lives.
>
> Speaking hypothetically, of course, I think that 5 hours a week is a bit
> slim. To keep a balance in life, I think work is still important. But I
> don't like to use the word 'work' because it has begun to take on negative
> impressions, so instead, use labour. Labour is still important, because
it
> provides the ability to achieve, and to accomplish.
>
> There would always be lots of work to do, in terms of building,
rebuilding,
> restoring, and creating. If all of the financial people stopped working
on
> what they do now , which has no real, lasting, value. If you redirected
all
> of the people who do 'useless' work, (not saying that what I do has
supreme
> potency of value), to tasks which are useful (as in beneficial to self and
> society, both in present and in future), than there would appear to be
more
> people than needed to grow what food we need, to repair, etc, etc. But ,
> then, all of this extra 'manpower' could be focused into _constructive_
> research, and the development of a real space program(what we have now is
a
> farce)
>
> In terms of Quality, and Inequality, I think that to 'solve', or resolve,
> many problems occuring in secular society (which have sprung out of 2000+
> years of developing fucked up habits [did I say that?]) will be long in
time
> of solving, since the likelihood of any substantial attitude change in a
> population of 6 billion. But this is all of the more reason to 'work
hard'
> to change things.
>
> I think that the wastefullness(anti-quality?) of human culture is coming
to
> more of an abrupt end however, and if anyone would like to debate (debate
> not necessarily implying conflict) this here, or in another thread, by all
> means do.
>
>
> Poot
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David MOREY <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:28 PM
> Subject: Re: MD Quality and In-e-quality
>
>
> > Hi Poot
> >
> > Do you think my figure is low, think of all the
> > non-food,shelter, clothes stuff we do:
> > ads/marketing/modelling/show biz/
> > fashion/pointless travel/entertainment/
> > banking/finance/etc etc.
> > Some of these things are fun, so why not
> > take the money out of them. Amateur sport, music,
> > teaching, etc have a lot to be said for them.
> >
> > regards
> > David M
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Matthew Poot" <mattpoot@hotmail.com>
> > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: MD Quality and In-e-quality
> >
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > DM: Somehow we are dividing
> > > things so that we have to work 50 hours to keep up with our addictive
> > > low quality life styles.
> > >
> > >
> > > Tell me about it.
> > >
> > > All work, and no play, make ______ a dull ___.
> > >
> > > I don't really think that when we work 50, 60, 70 hours a week, how
much
> > > time is there for self-development? Nevertheless trying to improve
> things
> > > around you.
> > > When you work this much, your ambition is systematically destroyed,
> > > sometimes until a point of no recovery.
> > >
> > > Although 5 hours a week seems a bit low, even 5 hours a day would be
> cake!
> > > Especially if it was work you enjoyed!
> > >
> > > Something like Platos doing what you are best doing.
> > >
> > >
> > > Poot
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: David MOREY <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM
> > > Subject: Re: MD Quality and In-e-quality
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > My hope is that we can improve our
> > > > shallow concept of individualism and get
> > > > back to something like the scope and ambition
> > > > of renaissance man. I would suggest we can replace
> > > > money and exchange by giving away the products of
> > > > our labour and giving up ownership. Just imagine how
> > > > much less we would then need and have to do much less tedious
> > > > work. Imagine no copyright, so that people only produced
> > > > art, music.etc for love and not money. Sure there is basic
> > > > work for basic needs, let's say 5 hours a week these days at most,
> > > > then work should be a matter of free choice. Somehow we are dividing
> > > > things so that we have to work 50 hours to keep up with our
addictive
> > > > low quality life styles.
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > > DM
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Matthew Poot" <mattpoot@hotmail.com>
> > > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:46 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: MD Quality and In-e-quality
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Dm,
> > > > >
> > > > > You say we have to get rid of money. In a 'project' I worked on
> for
> > my
> > > > > philosophy course, I chose the topic "The Ideal State" and
discussed
> > > > > political, philosophical, economical, and theological ideas
> > surrounding
> > > > > that.
> > > > >
> > > > > One such idea was to get rid of money. But , I ran into a few
> > problems.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that, in the end, the trade/barter system will be the main
> > > > solution.
> > > > > Yet, even still there are problems with that. How can you prevent
> > > people
> > > > > from being swindled? How can you promote fair trade?
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem with money, mainly, is that it becomes the determining
> > > factor
> > > > > for almost everything in life today, as opposed to Quality being
> the
> > > > > determiner (word?)
> > > > >
> > > > > One of the interesting jobs that I 'do' right now, part-time, is
> > working
> > > > in
> > > > > a factory that produces large 'chocolate' eggs for easter, in an
> > > assembly
> > > > > line fashion (thank you Mr. Ford~!). This is _the_ most mind
> numbing
> > > > labour
> > > > > I have ever partaken in, and it helps me achieve a more well
rounded
> > > view
> > > > of
> > > > > the current make up of our industrial society. Each egg gets a
> > > "surprise"
> > > > > in it. Most of the time, it is just 2 shitty erasers. With that
> > comes
> > > > the
> > > > > egg. How much is paid for something that costs about.....25
cents
> to
> > > > make
> > > > > (including equipment, etc)?? its about 10 dollars in the end.
and
> > the
> > > > > profit ratio goes up as you make larger eggs....
> > > > >
> > > > > Mass , IMO, is one of the key promoters and sustainers of 'money'
> as
> > we
> > > > > know it. Mass Production, Mass Media, Mass-murder.....the list
goes
> > on.
> > > > In
> > > > > my job working in the largest kitchen in Canada, (Royal York
Hotel),
> > > > > everything is produced in quantity (excluding fine dining).
> > > > >
> > > > > I think , therefor, that we can all agree to : Quantity <
> Quality
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, there has to be a change in attitudes on everyones part. A
> > > > different
> > > > > SoM, you could say.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Time is short
> > > > >
> > > > > Poot
> > > > >
> > > > >
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