Re: MD SQ-SQ coherence and the Biosphere.

From: Matt poot (mattpoot@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Mar 20 2004 - 07:22:19 GMT

  • Next message: Sam Norton: "Re: MD quality religion"

    Hi all,

    Jim: Overgeneralisation is an intellectual
    >problem.

    Me: It is indeed :-o

    Jim: But I would note that
    it has been hypothesised that the current increases of basic
    allergies suffered by children is due to a lack of building up basic
    immunities to to over-use of basic hygeine practices. On the social
    level this could be analogous to an over-refined set of social
    structures (Victorian) where the presence of a mild profanity might
    cause the moral equivalent of hyperallergic reaction

    Me: As I work in the foodservice 'industry' (or so it is not called),
    allergies are becoming quite ...present. I think that this is brought on
    of course by the biological side of things (such as over-cleanliness, and
    taking pills/medicine for every cold, and illness), which , are in turn,
    brought on by this feeling of 'being dirty', when actually, we are cleaner
    now, then humans have ever been, and to the point that it becomes unatural.
    I use the case of showering every day .

    Jim: Disease of some form is fairly inevitable in a diverse ecosystem

    Me: I believe that the virus is one of the oldest life forms on earth. yet
    it is a very odd life form , since it does not live, if it does not have a
    host. After all, what is good (healthiness) would not be considered good,
    if there was no bad (disease)

    Again, I am cut short, due to tipsyiness and fatigue. Looking forward to
    posting in the future. I am liking this discussion very much.

    Poot :-D

    >From: Jim Ledbury <jim.ledbury@dsl.pipex.com>
    >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    >To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    >Subject: Re: MD SQ-SQ coherence and the Biosphere.
    >Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 06:25:01 +0000
    >
    >Valuemetaphysics@aol.com wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>I am unsure about the quality of diversity per se. This seems to me to
    >>be a justification for a lot of BritArt which I find - um - pointless.
    >>Okay, in this sphere (intellectual) I dislike the art but I will defend
    >>their right to produce it. I think I am supportive of diversity, but
    >>with qualifications.
    >>
    >>Mark 19-03-04: Hi Jim. I feel diversity can be defended in MoQ terms. The
    >>position with BritArt may be a socially dominated issue? I find the
    >>aesthetics of much BritArt to be lacking in intellectual Quality.
    >>
    >>Diversity in biological terms means plenty of things. We need this, but
    >>diversity in disease? Well this one is being played out on many diverse
    >>levels: intellectual, social and biological. I'm thinking of the
    >>current todo with multiple disease jabs for kids here (MMR) which is a
    >>media long runner in Britain, perhaps elsewhere.
    >>
    >>Mark 19-03-04: Diversity in disease may result from diversity in life
    >>forms upon which disease can flourish? However, the latter is of a higher
    >>evolutionary coherent state and in a better position to 'get the upper
    >>hand'?
    >>Disease is, by definition, an aberration of a better state? But the better
    >>state got 'to be,' 'to exist' in the first place, and the MoQ helps
    >>explain why.
    >>
    >I suspect there is probably an optimal diversity, which would be relate to
    >concepts found in self-organised chaos. In ecological terms this would
    >relate to the best filling of all available ecological niches. If there
    >were fewer species, then there would be gaps to exploit and divergent
    >evolution/external species would fill them; if there were too many, then
    >their populations would dwindle and become unviable so we have some form of
    >dynamic equilibrium. I remember reading an article in New Scientist a
    >couple of years back about an ecologist (scientist not activist sense) in
    >Costa Rica concluding that the health of biosphere was indicated by it's
    >closeness to this optimum level, and that species were created and became
    >extinct all the time. Unfortunately it's one of those theories likely to
    >exploited by anti-ecological social forces who will gleefully seize on its
    >concept that we shouldn't get too hung up about extinctions out of context.
    >
    >In other levels I would think that perhaps BritArt is precisely the point
    >at which diversity is becoming watered down to the point of non-viability.
    >Maybe that's a cause for celebration as it could be taken as an indicator
    >of a thriving intellectual ecology :-/. Maybe I can get out of this
    >unwelcome (to me) apparent support for the state of BritArt by
    >hypothesising that the intellectual sphere of BritArt is a closed system,
    >and that it may well be healthy in its own terms but poor in terms of
    >relating to a wider social/intellectual sphere which I feel it is one of
    >the basic responsibilities of intellectual quality. I don't know. Maybe
    >that's dangerously close to a closed intellectual system which refuses to
    >allow DQ to spread. Or maybe it's a higher yet value system?
    >
    >In expanding on the situations where diversity is not synonymous with
    >quality in a kind of reduction ad absurdam argument (perhaps a naive one
    >and I'm not suggesting that this is what you meant), a simplistic approach
    >to diversity == quality would suggest that in biological science the more
    >animal experimentation done the better. Again, this can only be the case
    >in a very closed intellectual sphere with no regard to the wider social
    >feedback resulting from such experimentation. To suggest that "don't be
    >such a wuss, this is expanding intellectual quality (aka science)" erodes
    >many healthy social protocols regarding mutual respect, I would think.
    >
    >Disease of some form is fairly inevitable in a diverse ecosystem. Taken on
    >a simplistic level maybe we should celebrate disease as being indicative of
    >diversity! On the social level, this would be akin to celebrating
    >criminality I guess. On the intellectual level: I'm not sure: celebrating
    >plagiarism and scientific fraud and disputation for it's own sake, I guess.
    > However rather than try to stamp out the diversity, higher level
    >protocols have to be worked out. With respect to disease - hygeine. With
    >respect to criminality - laws. With respect to intellectual abuse -
    >professional ethics, I suppose. In each case there is (or should be) a
    >celebration of diversity - that is the extinction of diversity should only
    >be accomplished where the conflict jeopardizes survival. Which kinda
    >brings us to the state of current world affairs, I suppose; but I don't
    >want to go there today. But I would note that it has been hypothesised
    >that the current increases of basic allergies suffered by children is due
    >to a lack of building up basic immunities to to over-use of basic hygeine
    >practices. On the social level this could be analogous to an over-refined
    >set of social structures (Victorian) where the presence of a mild profanity
    >might cause the moral equivalent of hyperallergic reaction. On the
    >intellectual level I guess this would be analogous to excessive witch hunts
    >and denouncements of heterodox opinions as unscientific. This could also
    >be expanded to attitudes related to pornography and hate literature.
    >Celebrating pornography and hate literature per se would be celebrating the
    >disease as evidence of diversity. To use the law against them however
    >should be used with caution. I guess this would be the case when the
    >pornography involved or encouraged rape or child abuse (non-consensual
    >acts), or where the hate literature consituted incitement to violence.
    >
    >However, a lot of this is reasoning (at least I hope it's reasoning) by
    >analogy and should be used with caution. Each case should be taken on it's
    >own merits. Overgeneralisation is an intellectual problem.
    >
    >ATB
    >Jim
    >
    >
    >MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    >Mail Archives:
    >Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    >Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    >MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >
    >To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    >http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >

    _________________________________________________________________
    Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months
    FREE*
    http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sat Mar 20 2004 - 07:25:21 GMT