From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Apr 04 2004 - 00:42:32 BST
Wim and all MOQers:
dmb said to Wim:
'Its fairly clear that from the bulk of your description that we're not
talking about the same thing at all - or hardly
at all.'
Wim replied:
I DO have mystical experience in Quaker meetings for worship quite
regularly. Maybe 1 out of every 3 times I visit one. Sometimes in other
occasions too. Practising opening one's self for 'getting Guidance' in
Quaker meetings contributes to mystical experience in other occasions in my
experience. The experience of 'Guidance' (also worded differently by other
Quakers) is very much a mystical experience. ...etc
dmb says:
I don't see it. You assert that "guidance" is very much a mystical
experience, but I don't see the similarity between your descriptons and the
descriptions provided in Lila. Nor do they resemble my own experiences. Plus
its all very vague. I mean, guidence about what? Who or what guides? What
kinds of things are said? I honestly don't know what you're talking about.
Sitting and waiting? I really don't get it. Could you describe this practice
in a way that shows me how it corresponds to what Pirsig or any other mystic
has said about the mystical experience? Don't get me wrong. It sounds like a
nice thing to do and I know the sense of community and connectedness that
you're talking about from other contexts, but this is far different than a
mystical experience. And I don't doubt that waiting for guidence can
precipitate SOME kind of meaningful experience. I just doubt that we have
the same idea about what constitutes a mystical experience. (As one example,
you say that you have to give up ego-ownership or your words when speaking
at a meeting. By contrast, as I understand and have experienced, the
mystical experience takes it way past that and utterly dissolves the self.
The difference between the two must be something like the difference between
loaning your shirt to another and giving all your clothes away and running
naked through town, which is a mightly big difference.) That's where I'd
like you to go into some detail about the experience itself. Then we can
compare your experiences within Quakerism to other accounts of the mystical
experience.
Thanks.
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